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Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
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Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
Wondering why this thread (viewtopic.php?t=87722) was archived. Is this a new standard practice for the staff? If we are not going to moderate out of game, as per the owner's wishes, we should also respect their wishes of not moderating general discussion besides flaming. Feedback from the community should certainly not be archived because we don't like it.
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Thread contents for those without the gravedigger role:
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- Patel
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
Didn't know it was archived, but here's my post from it as well
Also - Pkhonor has always been a dictatorship for the most part, just one that respects democratic principles as much as possible. It's an interesting sandbox for political ideologies because we have a small community with a lot of beings of 'absolute power' and near-omniscience. The amount of information you can work with is impressive and you dip in and out of benevolent dictatorshipsPatel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:00 am The reason we used to lock threads like these was because the forums were an active place and we didn't want to saturate people's digests with private arguments. We were also coming off of the forum-era of the internet, where people generally treated online boards with a bit of respect and a novel place for discussion. As the ability to post online has become ubiquitous among the population, most people no longer treat the internet like a privilege and the culture surrounding discussion online has changed entirely. I don't think Raj calling out the people who are trying to make him leave the game is a bad thing or inappropriate at this point. It's not like it's detracting attention from anything else anyways.
The issue with Raj and the many folks who blatantly dislike him and want him gone is unresolved - yes, they are being toxic to him, no, it's not really banter. Banter is fun and keeps you coming back for more. You want Raj to leave PkHonor, you'll bully him every way you can to get there. You understand that the dumb and simple rules on here just require that you don't say certain words, and you know that you can psychologically torture someone without ever using a slur. This is human interaction 101. Peace is a choice that you have decided not to make (as in, both camps), and now one that Raj has also decided not to make. The ability to resolve your differences is there, but whether or not you guys choose to do it is up to you.
I purposefully tagged no one because you'll feel like it's directed at you if you're involved. There's also a lot of you and I'm lazy.
This situation is full of individuals (on both sides) who would rather stubbornly cling to their dislike for one another than sit down and talk through their differences. I'm not sure why - maybe y'all just never had a chance to open up and talk about your feelings, maybe you don't know how. But the thing that's actually difficult is taking some time to talk to and understand one another. Pointing fingers, calling each other crude things, and banding together to drive people out - it's easy. That's why even kids do it in pre-school. It takes little thought. You follow some basic rules to not get caught. Then you get your way.
The issue of not having any moderation outside of the game server is one that is long overdue for a serious discussion and overhaul as well. It only got to this point because the ability to act was restricted by strict rules from Owner(s), and we neutered our own staff team over time like a pet dog. I fought it at various points, Ryan fought it at various points, the community fought it, countless staff members fought it - but we were always told 'well we can't lose players'. Or that 'it wasn't worth the risk of getting someone innocent'. Now that we don't really have players left to lose, it's time to talk principles and decide whether or not the community is a zero-sum-game. Is it? If so, then no point in discussion, things are going exactly as intended.
If not, then what kind of community do we want to build?
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I understand, but functionally, the result of that dictatorship in recent history has been more or less anarchy out-of-game. Which is fine, but we should be consistent, in that I don't understand why any of this is being locked or archived, if we're not moderating out-of-game, or why Jayden should be biased against me, if staff are meant to just tolerate people being pests out-of-game. But there is a dictatorship behind it, which is why I am somewhat hopeful that progress is vaguely possible.Patel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:08 am Also - Pkhonor has always been a dictatorship for the most part, just one that respects democratic principles as much as possible. It's an interesting sandbox for political ideologies because we have a small community with a lot of beings of 'absolute power' and near-omniscience. The amount of information you can work with is impressive and you dip in and out of benevolent dictatorships
The solution to the issue I'm having under anarchy is to stoop to the level of the people causing me issues, which I am perfectly comfortable doing, but that doesn't mean I can't ask for a better world, or that we should expect that from our developers.
- Patel
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I always maintain that taking the high road is the best way to go, but it comes at personal (emotional) cost at times. The major loss of stooping to their level is that you forfeit a veil of ambiguity (to others) that allows you to portray yourself as a victim. It just adds to the noise, but makes noise it does. People who don't know you or who know the people you're beefing with are less likely to side with you now that they've seen you're just as capable of acting that way. They don't know what's in your head or what the timeline of events is in detail. The information is spread across ingame, discord (public and private) and forum interactions, which even I (having access to most of those) can barely put together.Raj wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:22 amI understand, but functionally, the result of that dictatorship in recent history has been more or less anarchy out-of-game. Which is fine, but we should be consistent, in that I don't understand why any of this is being locked or archived, if we're not moderating out-of-game, or why Jayden should be biased against me, if staff are meant to just tolerate people being pests out-of-game. But there is a dictatorship behind it, which is why I am somewhat hopeful that progress is vaguely possible.Patel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:08 am Also - Pkhonor has always been a dictatorship for the most part, just one that respects democratic principles as much as possible. It's an interesting sandbox for political ideologies because we have a small community with a lot of beings of 'absolute power' and near-omniscience. The amount of information you can work with is impressive and you dip in and out of benevolent dictatorships
The solution to the issue I'm having under anarchy is to stoop to the level of the people causing me issues, which I am perfectly comfortable doing, but that doesn't mean I can't ask for a better world, or that we should expect that from our developers.
I think it's supremely important to not care about what others think, as doing so prevents us from acting authentically. But it's very important to be aware of what others think and what shapes their perceptions, as it allows us to act strategically and favorably.
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I just don't care about the opinions of people who have convinced themselves they have a complete story when they obviously don't. If members of the staff team are unable to identify when they have incomplete information, but act as if they do and without being challenged by anyone else on the team, then that team is fucked beyond repair. That may or may not include ownership, if it applies to them. I cannot imagine ownership taking an informed stance on anything community related with their activity ngl.Patel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:41 am I think it's supremely important to not care about what others think, as doing so prevents us from acting authentically. But it's very important to be aware of what others think and what shapes their perceptions, as it allows us to act strategically and favorably.
- Monys
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I just want to point out that you are guilty of doing the same things that are being done against you. Here are a few example of you prematurely locking and archiving threads you didn’t agree with before they reached a resolution.
With that being said, I thought it was wrong when you did it to me, so I also think it is wrong if someone does it to you.
As long as YOU keep the discussion productive and professional, I think it’s a valid thread and anyone who tries to flame and crash the threads should be removed.
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As long as YOU keep the discussion productive and professional, I think it’s a valid thread and anyone who tries to flame and crash the threads should be removed.
- Lykos
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
Those threads are completely different scenarios that do not apply to this situation. I'm sorry you felt like they were prematurely L&A'd. 2 of them even explained why it needed to be L&A'd with valid reasons. One clearly denoted not to be an intended feature by a developer, the other seems to clearly state the before & after situation for collection logs. As for the other thread, no one replied in over a month.
These are not threads that need to remain up to garner discussion let alone would there have been any conversation in the first place. In other words, it needed to be filtered so the forums can remain organized. Completely different from a 11 page thread discussing critical issues in the community.
Why even post this?
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I don’t want to flood this topic trying to explain to you the importance of not locking forums topics we don’t care about or don’t agree with.
But feel free to shoot me a message if you genuinely don’t see any similarities. We can have the conversation there. I’m always here to help
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- Patel
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Re: Is this an anarchy or a dictatorship?
I think it's important to get these thoughts out, otherwise people just simmer and grudges manifest in other ways down the road.
We shouldn't be afraid of looking bad/weak in front of the eyes of the 'community', and should welcome criticism. It is an opportunity to do better or resolve issues. At the very least, an opportunity to understand each other even if we may disagree.
Silence and obedience should be the most frightening thing of all
We shouldn't be afraid of looking bad/weak in front of the eyes of the 'community', and should welcome criticism. It is an opportunity to do better or resolve issues. At the very least, an opportunity to understand each other even if we may disagree.
Silence and obedience should be the most frightening thing of all
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