PkHonor

Patel wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:25 pm

Natasha nice wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:20 pm

Patel wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 4:33 pm

I might be misunderstanding but that's been a pretty common occurrence for about as long as I've been around. Pretty much the reason logs exist. I agree that staff don't spontaneously open the logs and spend a couple hours looking through everything that's been said on a given day, and waiting for someone to fill out a form to look is procedural standard more than the easiest way to determine whether someone has done wrong ... plus, in the fairly common scenario where a player doesn't understand how to use outdated internet forums or take a screenshot, the best they can do is say 'he said something on this day.' That's when one would normally look through logs to verify, though back then we had to piece it together by looking at command logs and reconstructing conversations ourselves.

I wouldn't bother typing all that when it comes to khilla,him saying that staff never went throught log without a ::Report is bullshit and we both been around to know that staff done that in the past but khilla be typing khilla thing.

I think he just meant they don't sit around looking at the logs and the report needs to provide some information about timing etc. for it to be reasonable to look. Separate from that is a definite shift in the procedure staff follow - if it's not a properly written report, for some reason, it just "can't" get looked at. This started well before Ryan even became manager (Billy was the first to really enforce it) and it kinda neutered staff's ability to be helpful. Information is information, no matter the form - if you want it to be useful it will, so long as you spend time verifying it.

Fair enough,and this is why i want that rule/that procedure to be changed cause it doesnt make senses for it to work that way - might have made senseswhen we had hundreds of player but nowaday there isnt as many player playing and there isnt as many report,plus i don't think people want to bother making a report if they punish the player but dont let the player know,it just feel like the report is being ignored on top of it all. khilla is just a ''rule are rule'' kind of guy and sadly,hes the highest ranked staff that is active and with thing being that way,i don't see any change happening anytime soon. There's atleast 3 mod that would want change along those line but they don't really bother trying to get change going because khilla is at the top of the chain at the moment and they know they will waste their time by trying to get some change going as long as khilla is at the top - and in my case,im just an a regular player so i dont have any weight on anything so yeah :$

My 2 cents about report and refund and appeal formatting and stuff is that it made sense when staff load was high enough that not fixing those issues cost other players time on their reports getting looked at. I haven’t looked in those sections in a bit, but assuming volume is down for them, what’s the harm in doing what Patel’s saying and just using the information that’s given to you in the format it’s in?

Raj wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:38 pm My 2 cents about report and refund and appeal formatting and stuff is that it made sense when staff load was high enough that not fixing those issues cost other players time on their reports getting looked at. I haven’t looked in those sections in a bit, but assuming volume is down for them, what’s the harm in doing what Patel’s saying and just using the information that’s given to you in the format it’s in?

+1

Patel wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 4:33 pm I might be misunderstanding but that's been a pretty common occurrence for about as long as I've been around. Pretty much the reason logs exist. I agree that staff don't spontaneously open the logs and spend a couple hours looking through everything that's been said on a given day, and waiting for someone to fill out a form to look is procedural standard more than the easiest way to determine whether someone has done wrong ... plus, in the fairly common scenario where a player doesn't understand how to use outdated internet forums or take a screenshot, the best they can do is say 'he said something on this day.' That's when one would normally look through logs to verify, though back then we had to piece it together by looking at command logs and reconstructing conversations ourselves.

Mods haven't had access to yell logs for at least 5 years, it was changed to admin+. They were senior+ for a few years before that as well.
In my time as staff, no admin has gone through yell logs to mute people. @Jayden can correct me if I'm wrong.

Raj wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:38 pm I haven’t looked in those sections in a bit, but assuming volume is down for them, what’s the harm in doing what Patel’s saying and just using the information that’s given to you in the format it’s in?

It shouldn't be my decision to unilaterally change staff procedure.

I'm not against using the yell logs for moderation, I just don't think I should be the one to make that decision as the sole person who is active + able to see them. I could just go mute people I don't like and say "yell logs" for the reasoning, and no one is able to gainsay me, since mods can't see the logs + Jayden isn't active.

Khilla wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:04 am It shouldn't be my decision to unilaterally change staff procedure.

I'm not against using the yell logs for moderation, I just don't think I should be the one to make that decision as the sole person who is active + able to see them. I could just go mute people I don't like and say "yell logs" for the reasoning, and no one is able to gainsay me, since mods can't see the logs + Jayden isn't active.

I am bestowing upon you the ability to unilaterally change staff procedure on this thing. With the caveat that if anyone is muted with yell logs as a source, just put a ::note with the date/time for the logs query so it’s easy to find again and review down the road.

Even better, I think there’s a query ID associated with each query in the URL right? It looks something like “qid=AVb53VdGWnZ0”. So if you paste that query ID in the note, in theory, someone else can just copy it into their URL and it will re-run the query you ran. I would test that though. I wonder if they ever expire. They probably don’t considering the mod bot links never die.

Khilla wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:04 am Mods haven't had access to yell logs for at least 5 years, it was changed to admin+. They were senior+ for a few years before that as well.
In my time as staff, no admin has gone through yell logs to mute people. @Jayden can correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh that is just unfortunate then.

Khilla wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:04 am It shouldn't be my decision to unilaterally change staff procedure.

I'm not against using the yell logs for moderation, I just don't think I should be the one to make that decision as the sole person who is active + able to see them. I could just go mute people I don't like and say "yell logs" for the reasoning, and no one is able to gainsay me, since mods can't see the logs + Jayden isn't active.

You could simply not lie about why you punish people. There is nothing left to lose, you only gain by acting in virtue at this point. I mean, you only ever gained by doing that, but at some point we shifted to caring about adherence to procedure over doing simple obvious good (many years before you)

You can just do this if you want to, there is no one left to trust. Your authority comes from the community and the people you serve, your *power* comes from the staff team/game code.

Yell logs are only accessible by admin+? We're talking about those messages that are blasted in a very public way for the entire community to see?

As my good friend Hikaru Nakamura likes to say... Logical.

Amount wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2026 8:10 am Yell logs are only accessible by admin+? We're talking about those messages that are blasted in a very public way for the entire community to see?

As my good friend Hikaru Nakamura likes to say... Logical.

Can you introduce me? I'm a big fan...

Patel wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2026 12:53 pm

Amount wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2026 8:10 am Yell logs are only accessible by admin+? We're talking about those messages that are blasted in a very public way for the entire community to see?

As my good friend Hikaru Nakamura likes to say... Logical.

Can you introduce me? I'm a big fan...

Preet, I think we need to play a blitz and rapid game at some stage...

Khilla wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2026 6:04 am

Patel wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 4:33 pm I might be misunderstanding but that's been a pretty common occurrence for about as long as I've been around. Pretty much the reason logs exist. I agree that staff don't spontaneously open the logs and spend a couple hours looking through everything that's been said on a given day, and waiting for someone to fill out a form to look is procedural standard more than the easiest way to determine whether someone has done wrong ... plus, in the fairly common scenario where a player doesn't understand how to use outdated internet forums or take a screenshot, the best they can do is say 'he said something on this day.' That's when one would normally look through logs to verify, though back then we had to piece it together by looking at command logs and reconstructing conversations ourselves.

Mods haven't had access to yell logs for at least 5 years, it was changed to admin+. They were senior+ for a few years before that as well.
In my time as staff, no admin has gone through yell logs to mute people. @Jayden can correct me if I'm wrong.

Raj wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:38 pm I haven’t looked in those sections in a bit, but assuming volume is down for them, what’s the harm in doing what Patel’s saying and just using the information that’s given to you in the format it’s in?

It shouldn't be my decision to unilaterally change staff procedure.

I'm not against using the yell logs for moderation, I just don't think I should be the one to make that decision as the sole person who is active + able to see them. I could just go mute people I don't like and say "yell logs" for the reasoning, and no one is able to gainsay me, since mods can't see the logs + Jayden isn't active.

As the only active staff member, is it still unilateral?