Vote! No replies!

[Church]

I've half typed a response to this thread a dozen times but always stopped short cause I was afraid I was going to come across wrong.

Ultimately this poll is worthless. Asking people to randomly judge if they view favoritism in situations is just a poorly worded question to begin with. Especially knowing that there are people who still, despite being told it's not true a dozen times, claim there's mods abusing their powers to attack them in the wilderness.

I've always been personally willing to talk to people at length about why things are done the way they are and why I've made the decisions I've made, but I understand why not every mod does it. It's not fun talking to people who will twist the situations they see to justify their opinions or actions.

I just don't know what you wanted to get out of this poll other than to find out that, like normal, people online will choose to view decisions they don't like as being biased, illogical, or wrong in some way that ignores the heart of the decision.

Is the poll useless? To who? To me it isn’t. If you don’t care about how the community feels, then that’s your personal problem. I care about how people feel, which is why I ask the question. So it is far from useless. Understanding how the community feels is the first step in making them happy.

But it’s useless I guess...

This post could never show how the community truly feels. A poorly worded yes or no question that a fraction of the players of the server will even reply to will not show anyone anything of value beyond something we could already have gauged from other similar posts discussing similar things. If you want to expand on those threads and get more accurate views of community opinion you need more specific questions.

As I said, the question invites bias. Players will look at what Sam does and judge it one way, and if they see Respire do the same thing judge it an entirely different way based on their presumption of the mods mens rea of the mod at the time of making the decision.

[Uim elon]

Is the poll useless? To who? To me it isn’t. If you don’t care about how the community feels, then that’s your personal problem. I care about how people feel, which is why I ask the question. So it is far from useless. Understanding how the community feels is the first step in making them happy.

But it’s useless I guess...

Poor choice of words on his part. It's not useless, it just doesn't tell you that much. It's basically like having a poll asking "do you think the government always acts in the best interests of the people?". Maybe if the result was 95% no it would be an indication of a problem but with polls like that you really can't expect to get a lot of positive votes.

But the question you proposed wasn’t to measure the severity of the problem, it was to just identify the problem. If you wanted to measure the severity of the problem, you would make it a bit more detailed and sophisticated.

If I ask “Does racism exist?” The answer is Yes or No. The answer isnt “Yes, but it is only 1% of the population.” And it isn’t “No, only 1% of the population”. The question is just asking if it’s a thing, not the severity.

This question could in the future lead to a more in-depth discussion on the severity, but first we have to ask “Is it a thing”..... because if 80% of the population says No it isn’t, then there is no other discussion to be made.

Edit: @Church , this response refers to your response also.

[Iron adam]

Lets just say what everyone is thinking! NAZUTHS IS CORRUPT!

cc: @Monys

[Thierryu1]

Lets just say what everyone is thinking! NAZUTHS IS CORRUPT!

cc: @Monys

Very aggressive and a bit too anti for my liking, please dial it down...

[Rapsey]

But the question you proposed wasn’t to measure the severity of the problem, it was to just identify the problem. If you wanted to measure the severity of the problem, you would make it a bit more detailed and sophisticated.

If I ask “Does racism exist?” The answer is Yes or No. The answer isnt “Yes, but it is only 1% of the population.” And it isn’t “No, only 1% of the population”. The question is just asking if it’s a thing, not the severity.

That's exactly the point we're trying to make. You could run that racism poll and in all likelihood get 100% yes votes. What have you learned from that? How useful was that poll, or the data you gathered from it?

[Thierryu1]

But the question you proposed wasn’t to measure the severity of the problem, it was to just identify the problem. If you wanted to measure the severity of the problem, you would make it a bit more detailed and sophisticated.

If I ask “Does racism exist?” The answer is Yes or No. The answer isnt “Yes, but it is only 1% of the population.” And it isn’t “No, only 1% of the population”. The question is just asking if it’s a thing, not the severity.

That's exactly the point we're trying to make. You could run that racism poll and in all likelihood get 100% yes votes. What have you learned from that? How useful was that poll, or the data you gathered from it?

This poll was clearly made with the intention to incite drama.

[Uim elon]

But the question you proposed wasn’t to measure the severity of the problem, it was to just identify the problem. If you wanted to measure the severity of the problem, you would make it a bit more detailed and sophisticated.

If I ask “Does racism exist?” The answer is Yes or No. The answer isnt “Yes, but it is only 1% of the population.” And it isn’t “No, only 1% of the population”. The question is just asking if it’s a thing, not the severity.

That's exactly the point we're trying to make. You could run that racism poll and in all likelihood get 100% yes votes. What have you learned from that? How useful was that poll, or the data you gathered from it?

I believe that before a real discussion can be made to pinpoint and resolve a problem, we have to first come to a common agreement that there is in fact a problem.

A problem we have had recently is that people are proposing solutions to issues, but because there hasn’t been a common consensus that there is a problem, it doesn’t gain traction and gets quite messy. Therefore, by a simple poll asking “Is this a problem?”, we can come to an agreement that there is a problem. Next conversation will be “How bad is the problem”, which introduces minor dialogue. Last conversation is “How do we fix the problem?”, which is when the real heads clash.

So skipping the first problem identification, brings up lots of useless conversation.

[Church]

But the question you proposed wasn’t to measure the severity of the problem, it was to just identify the problem. If you wanted to measure the severity of the problem, you would make it a bit more detailed and sophisticated.

If I ask “Does racism exist?” The answer is Yes or No. The answer isnt “Yes, but it is only 1% of the population.” And it isn’t “No, only 1% of the population”. The question is just asking if it’s a thing, not the severity.

That's exactly the point we're trying to make. You could run that racism poll and in all likelihood get 100% yes votes. What have you learned from that? How useful was that poll, or the data you gathered from it?

I believe that before a real discussion can be made to pinpoint and resolve a problem, we have to first come to a common agreement that there is in fact a problem.

A problem we have had recently is that people are proposing solutions to issues, but because there hasn’t been a common consensus that there is a problem, it doesn’t gain traction and gets quite messy. Therefore, by a simple poll asking “Is this a problem?”, we can come to an agreement that there is a problem. Next conversation will be “How bad is the problem”, which introduces minor dialogue. Last conversation is “How do we fix the problem?”, which is when the real heads clash.

So skipping the first problem identification, brings up lots of useless conversation.

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

[Uim elon]

That's exactly the point we're trying to make. You could run that racism poll and in all likelihood get 100% yes votes. What have you learned from that? How useful was that poll, or the data you gathered from it?

I believe that before a real discussion can be made to pinpoint and resolve a problem, we have to first come to a common agreement that there is in fact a problem.

A problem we have had recently is that people are proposing solutions to issues, but because there hasn’t been a common consensus that there is a problem, it doesn’t gain traction and gets quite messy. Therefore, by a simple poll asking “Is this a problem?”, we can come to an agreement that there is a problem. Next conversation will be “How bad is the problem”, which introduces minor dialogue. Last conversation is “How do we fix the problem?”, which is when the real heads clash.

So skipping the first problem identification, brings up lots of useless conversation.

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

[Thierryu1]

I believe that before a real discussion can be made to pinpoint and resolve a problem, we have to first come to a common agreement that there is in fact a problem.

A problem we have had recently is that people are proposing solutions to issues, but because there hasn’t been a common consensus that there is a problem, it doesn’t gain traction and gets quite messy. Therefore, by a simple poll asking “Is this a problem?”, we can come to an agreement that there is a problem. Next conversation will be “How bad is the problem”, which introduces minor dialogue. Last conversation is “How do we fix the problem?”, which is when the real heads clash.

So skipping the first problem identification, brings up lots of useless conversation.

I'm in the PkHonor discord right now to let people come in and have this discussion, feel free to join.

There is no discussion to be made until we come to a common agreement that this is either a problem, or it is not. Which simply requires a yes or a no. This is why the poll is not useless to me.

There is no simple yes or no and that's just how it is. You can't expect a complicated problem to be painted by 1 poll with a simple yes or no as the only answer.