Regarding honors in PvM

[Raj]

So the difference between a main and honor in Nex is that

1. Getting a main account Nex ready to the degree that it’s helpful using it with your iron takes a non-negligible amount of time. At the minimum it requires a quest completion
2. A main account needs to actually pay attention to mechanics to avoid running out of supplies, whereas an honor can just ::food their whole way through a fight

[Fungamer]

1. Getting a main account Nex ready to the degree that it’s helpful using it with your iron takes a non-negligible amount of time. At the minimum it requires a quest completion

So does getting honor. Of course veterans have access to a bunch of honors, but your average player will have grinded hard for their honor acc + other gear. I find the requirement of a quest completion to qualify for having done "the effort" a bit silly since most of the community goes through a quest by spamming spacebar and clicking whatever the wiki tells them to.

2. A main account needs to actually pay attention to mechanics to avoid running out of supplies, whereas an honor can just ::food their whole way through a fight

If I can ::food and spam eat on a 2nd account while staying alive on the other as well then either:
A) Nex isn't some ultimate endgame boss and is so easy you can do it on a main and a honor at the same time, so why not?
B) I'm so good that I can do it on a main and honor at the same time, why not reward me with more dps or w.e?


Mainly agree with brant that a whole rework for honors is needed. The only appeal they have beyond the first hour of novelty is that they can help out in pvm. Removing or doubling down on that ability is bound to be controversial but necessary IMO.

[Raj]

If I can ::food and spam eat on a 2nd account while staying alive on the other as well then either:
A) Nex isn't some ultimate endgame boss and is so easy you can do it on a main and a honor at the same time, so why not?
B) I'm so good that I can do it on a main and honor at the same time, why not reward me with more dps or w.e?

A) This is mostly true due to the fact that we have massive HP buffs (+50% HP) and people can sit at 150 HP the whole fight. Which also is something I’m against. We can make Nex hard and make it hit 120’s for special attacks, but then you can’t do Nex without Nex gear. The entire game is busted because of devils advocate reasoning like this. “Because everything is easy because we busted the other thing, who cares if we make it even easier”.

I guess I would ask the question: since Nex is so easy, why do you need honors? Why not just hop on 3 alts, click the buttons the wiki tells you to for the quest, and farm the drops without hurting your drop rates? In fact, it seems preferable given the lack of overloads on honors, and Nex’s constant stat drains, drop rates not scaling, etc.

B) Because you’re not actually that good and you need ::food and spawn rights, see A


My take after some thought about a practical solution is, I think if ::food and ::i (maybe even all spawn rights) is disabled within instances, that’ll do. Make honor a shortcut for making a nerfed alt (no overloads) with unlimited gear and no more. Seems fair given it’s ~70B to gear with a 1T TBow. Content completion integrity stays the same for when we release things that are actually difficult like raids.

Edit: something to add. If I go to Nex with my iron and 3x honor, my iron will be the only one receiving a drop chance. With my iron and 3 alts, the alts will have significantly higher drop chances than my iron. Assuming carries in both cases. So I still also think they shouldn’t be allowed to join instances with irons. Although maybe that’s more of an issue with the way Nex drops work

[Elon musky]

I am ignorant on whether or not Ironmen can instance with normal players or if it’s just with other ironmen.

But if Ironmen can instance with regular players, then I think it would make sense to allow Honor players to instance with Ironmen…. BUT that is answering a question that wasn’t asked.

To answer the question of Honor players instancing with Normal accounts, I think it is fair to have the HP buffed, while keeping the drop rate at the proper buff for all present Normal/Ironman accounts.

There is also a compromise to have an increase in drop rate for Honor players present, but it to be not equivalent to the increase for other account types. For example, if the boosted drop rate is 10% for other account types, the loot increase for Honor accounts would be 5% or so. Just a thought.

[Attack like]

I guess I would ask the question: since Nex is so easy, why do you need honors? Why not just hop on 3 alts, click the buttons the wiki tells you to for the quest, and farm the drops without hurting your drop rates? In fact, it seems preferable given the lack of overloads on honors, and Nex’s constant stat drains, drop rates not scaling, etc.

B) Because you’re not actually that good and you need ::food and spawn rights, see A

As someone who has ACTUALLY done this option (

2193099ef558fee9dced3412eb63fa09.png

) and use alts already during nex kills it requires so much more attention during the range phase - if you look away for literally 3 seconds every single account you’re on will most likely die no matter how much food you have or if you can spawn more in, you die faster than you can eat if you’re gonna die there at all.

So I’ll ask you this - if I can already duo with myself and use maybe 4 brews per kill paying attention as well as getting 2x the drop chance WHY NOT let people use an honor (which would be worse than a comped main anyways) to help speed up kills? It’s not like I can spawn food on my alt yet I still seem to kill nex fairly easily with no supplies consumption. It’s just a worse version of an alt that can’t get drops so I think someone willing to pay 45b or 70$ for an account to help their main should actually be able to help their main - and if they want more drops/better odds using an alt then they can go put in the time an effort to achieve so.