A quick....

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Lieven
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Re: A quick....

Post by Lieven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:18 pm

Patel wrote:
Tom brady wrote: @ Me to be the decider for vet rank I am ready
Who r u

I was thinking it should be multiple people though. I would've loved to get you, ross, and simon to collectively decide, but Ross is banned (rip) and Simon only logs in here and there. You're here, for now. I feel like I'm suited as well, and I don't plan on going anywhere at this point. Who knows, not upto us, nor the most pressing issue :P
The issue with that would be that it's extremely bias. The veteran rank, if there were one, shouldn't really hold any weight. Shouldn't even have an extra crown or w.e. I like how RS just gives you a cape lol
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Re: A quick....

Post by Ross » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:06 pm

Hey, welcome back to my server.
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Re: A quick....

Post by Treehugger » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:44 pm

Ross wrote:Hey, welcome back to my server.
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Re: A quick....

Post by Patel » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:50 pm

Fungamer wrote:
Patel wrote:
Tom brady wrote: @ Me to be the decider for vet rank I am ready
Who r u

I was thinking it should be multiple people though. I would've loved to get you, ross, and simon to collectively decide, but Ross is banned (rip) and Simon only logs in here and there. You're here, for now. I feel like I'm suited as well, and I don't plan on going anywhere at this point. Who knows, not upto us, nor the most pressing issue :P
The issue with that would be that it's extremely bias. The veteran rank, if there were one, shouldn't really hold any weight. Shouldn't even have an extra crown or w.e. I like how RS just gives you a cape lol
Else, if t > ___ years, you're a vet.
Isn't honoring someone with a veteran status inherently a biased action? It's the way you view them in respect/favor. Deciding whether or not someone holds this position should come from whether or not people actually respect/favor that person through the course of the server's history. If it weren't a "biased" decision, it wouldn't hold weight. Which is something I've already addressed though.

Basically, we either want it to mean something, or we don't. If we want it to mean something, we have someone/some committee decide. If we don't, just set veteran status to "TRUE" for any player who joined before ____ date. But like, if it's meaningless then it's going to be quite low on the list of priorities. For certain individuals, there's an unspoken consensus on whether or not they're veterans. The community knows who they are and their implicit status holds enough value as is. A rank won't change their veteran status.

While some people may fall into a gray area, there do exist "obvious vets" and "obviously not vets". Even if it is a 'biased' metric, the grey area is best resolved by those who reside on the "obviously vets" side of things. If not them, then I can't honestly say anyone else is really fit.
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Re: A quick....

Post by Lieven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:45 pm

Patel wrote:if it's meaningless then it's going to be quite low on the list of priorities
Why should it hold any meaning though? I've been here for about 6.5 years. No idea how others view me, but I've been called a veteran player numerous of times and personally I dont even want some cape, title or crown. It's silly.
If it was done the 'bias' way through a committee or something like that, wouldn't it just be another way to divide the community? As you said, there's a gray area. I consider some people who have been here for 5 years not vets, but there's some people who have been here for just one year who I do consider as a vet. It's only possible for the very few remaining vets to "form" such a committee, as they'll be able to judge it better than any "new" player. That really makes it look like some elitist and snobbish club where one can enter only if they're on good terms with a few players.

Imagine if Rick, Hydromike, Hi im sam or dead newb would be unbanned and come back. They're vets too. They did some major stuff too, heck even some good stuff here and there. But I highly doubt all four of them would be voted in to be vets. Rick would be, as he's generally loved. But dead newb? Not a chance, as he wronged and pissed off at least one true vet you've mentioned (Simon)
It's never going to be fair the "bias" way. I also doubt that people would want to keep going with this "committee". You know how lazy people on PKH get when its not ultra urgent.

Should it have meaning so it's a way to thank those who have been here for a long time? Well, the "thank you" coming in form of far more superior game knowledge, comp cape or wealth that you grinded for, ::timeplayed, close friends and general popularity within the community is more than enough IMO.
Veterans can at least brag with at least one thing. Their PoH has their accounts exact creation date that they can show off to others.

People keep wondering how some veteran rank or status should be implemented while they really should be wondering why.
There's not really much reason next to some form or degree of "oh but i want to be praised for being here for a long time one way or another"

Idk. The entire veteran rank discussion gives me this feeling of "grow up". Basically the vet discussion is a group of grown ass men wanting validation for things they did or people they entertained when they were kids. Nostalgia? Sure. Pathethic? Kinda. Most of us were 12-16 back in those days, and quite frankly every single person was a cringy idiot back then :P
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Re: A quick....

Post by Tom brady » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:46 am

Fungamer wrote:
Patel wrote:if it's meaningless then it's going to be quite low on the list of priorities
Why should it hold any meaning though? I've been here for about 6.5 years. No idea how others view me, but I've been called a veteran player numerous of times and personally I dont even want some cape, title or crown. It's silly.
If it was done the 'bias' way through a committee or something like that, wouldn't it just be another way to divide the community? As you said, there's a gray area. I consider some people who have been here for 5 years not vets, but there's some people who have been here for just one year who I do consider as a vet. It's only possible for the very few remaining vets to "form" such a committee, as they'll be able to judge it better than any "new" player. That really makes it look like some elitist and snobbish club where one can enter only if they're on good terms with a few players.

Imagine if Rick, Hydromike, Hi im sam or dead newb would be unbanned and come back. They're vets too. They did some major stuff too, heck even some good stuff here and there. But I highly doubt all four of them would be voted in to be vets. Rick would be, as he's generally loved. But dead newb? Not a chance, as he wronged and pissed off at least one true vet you've mentioned (Simon)
It's never going to be fair the "bias" way. I also doubt that people would want to keep going with this "committee". You know how lazy people on PKH get when its not ultra urgent.

Should it have meaning so it's a way to thank those who have been here for a long time? Well, the "thank you" coming in form of far more superior game knowledge, comp cape or wealth that you grinded for, ::timeplayed, close friends and general popularity within the community is more than enough IMO.
Veterans can at least brag with at least one thing. Their PoH has their accounts exact creation date that they can show off to others.

People keep wondering how some veteran rank or status should be implemented while they really should be wondering why.
There's not really much reason next to some form or degree of "oh but i want to be praised for being here for a long time one way or another"

Idk. The entire veteran rank discussion gives me this feeling of "grow up". Basically the vet discussion is a group of grown ass men wanting validation for things they did or people they entertained when they were kids. Nostalgia? Sure. Pathethic? Kinda. Most of us were 12-16 back in those days, and quite frankly every single person was a cringy idiot back then :P
I mean Patel literally says you require respect from the community to be chosen, not just be old. Veteran as a term often has a meaning of respect, not just being old. There's a difference between a 100 year old WW2 veteran and a 100 year old trustfund dickhead rich guy.

Hydromike has 0 respect from/for supers and ddos'd the server, Dead Newb scammed/hacked/lied to multiple people, Hi Im Sam ddos'd and was toxic as fuck. These are all horrible fucking examples.

Rick pretty much left on good terms barring a few things

The veteran rank should be biased. We had it when I joined in 2011, it was rare and a sign of respect. It gave no powers or anything else, just a "cool" rank on the forums people could see. It should be chosen by those who are respected and liked, able to pick others who are equally viewed that way. It isn't about being here a long time, but it's about having a positive influence on the community over numerous years and sticking around.

And I mean, if it's like the forums where you just apply for the group, it would be pretty easy to maintain and I would dig having the opportunity to choose people who qualify (along with other vets).
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Re: A quick....

Post by Patel » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:10 am

Fungamer wrote:
Patel wrote:if it's meaningless then it's going to be quite low on the list of priorities
Why should it hold any meaning though?
I think you're not taking me literally enough, I mean what I say and no more.

IF we want it to hold meaning (as in, I'm not opining here, I'm simply saying this is one of the two options) then:

it should be decided by a committee, it will be biased but that's okay, and it will likely be run by respectable veterans of the community. We don't need to define who those people are, I trust that you understand what those words mean as most people do. If I was on that committee, for example, do you genuinely believe I'd allow Hydromike or HD Stefan to be given the same distinction as someone like Tomas, Jose, or Simon? Probably not. I see your point about the kids thing, but honestly, we're a bunch of grown ass men on a runescape-private-server forum arguing about runescape-private-server things. We can frame this however we want to and it wouldn't change the meaning. At the end of the day something about this discussion does in fact matter to you, and there's no point in trying to belittle it.

IF we want it to be meaningless then:

we can just define a very simply criteria based on account creation date and let users reap the benefits. There wouldn't be any benefits that could actually effect gameplay, just something that allows you to have the distinction. The downside is that because it's even more inconsequential, it's likely not to be implemented unless people really want it.

But to answer your question with what I actually think, if it's meaningless then there's no point anyways.

Nothing more to it than that.
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Re: A quick....

Post by Isaac » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:53 am

Bunch of grown ass men sitting around discussing a 'veteran' rank as some kind of validation, half of which are M.I.A from the game already.

Having a committee would be a terrible idea since there's identifiable cliques all over the PkHonor scene. I've pissed a lot of people off, and put a lot of them in their place along the way and it'd only take one vindictive person to ruin this exclusive gentlemen's club. Patel says he thinks he would be a good fit for this role, but who are you? I'm aware that you did a bunch of stuff way back when but that doesn't qualify you for anything now apart from maybe that green signature. As far as I know, you may be a completely pretentious asshole, utilising an online persona to hide behind.

I agree with Lieven that it screams 'grow up'. Being a 'vet', which by the way would be the ULTIMATE cringeworthy flex, isn't about a rank. If you're a vet, it's implicit. That comes from your time here, your game knowledge, your achievements and your buddies.

Please let's not entertain a discussion about introducing a veteran status. Unless you get it when you achieve max experience, as that's the only real objective achievement any player can attain through hard work, then I'm all for it :badjokeeel: :badjokeeel: :badjokeeel:
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Re: A quick....

Post by Tom brady » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:30 am

Isaac wrote:Bunch of grown ass men sitting around discussing a 'veteran' rank as some kind of validation, half of which are M.I.A from the game already.

Having a committee would be a terrible idea since there's identifiable cliques all over the PkHonor scene. I've pissed a lot of people off, and put a lot of them in their place along the way and it'd only take one vindictive person to ruin this exclusive gentlemen's club. Patel says he thinks he would be a good fit for this role, but who are you? I'm aware that you did a bunch of stuff way back when but that doesn't qualify you for anything now apart from maybe that green signature. As far as I know, you may be a completely pretentious asshole, utilising an online persona to hide behind.

I agree with Lieven that it screams 'grow up'. Being a 'vet', which by the way would be the ULTIMATE cringeworthy flex, isn't about a rank. If you're a vet, it's implicit. That comes from your time here, your game knowledge, your achievements and your buddies.

Please let's not entertain a discussion about introducing a veteran status. Unless you get it when you achieve max experience, as that's the only real objective achievement any player can attain through hard work, then I'm all for it :badjokeeel: :badjokeeel: :badjokeeel:
I'd like to think that having a group of multiple people would hopefully reduce the likelihood of one person's biases against somebody for something stupid impacting the actual decision of whether or not they're deserving of the rank.

I don't give a shit if you flamed me/another one of the deciders back in the day PKing or some dumb shit. If you're still a respectable guy overall, been around a long time, and haven't gone around scamming/hacking/etc. I'd support that person even if I had a personal bias towards them, as the rank is higher than my own experiences with an individual lol
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Re: A quick....

Post by Bl00d 1 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:13 am

In respect to everyones answers, I completely understand where everyone is coming from and thank everyone for sharing their views.

I am in NO way shape or form demanding OR asking for a Veteran rank to be implemented. This is my view:

HOWEVER, I believe old players who have done somewhat a good trade or made a positive effect on the server should be recognised. It is important to understand as a community; the dedication and hard work some of our players have invested into Pkhonor(Staff & non-staff). Pkhonor wouldn't be the same without certain members making what is it today. In respect to a few old players such as Iron Geist (Admin), Ashley (Admin), Donderstone2, Rapsey, Hump Gru, Tom, Patel, Andres, Slashy... these are only a FEW names of people who should be recognised for their hard work. Of course, everyone should remain humble and should not feel like they're better than anyone else however, there have been many players who has made a number of different sacrifises to improve the performance of Pkhonor. @Mike has done a tremendous job at developing and leading Pkhonor to success. When someone does wrong, we are quick to blame and quick to point fingers. When people have continuously done something good for the better mind of Pkhonor, I believe we should thank and appreciate them more.

We may have our different views and opinions on this debate but please, keep it strictly professional and polite.
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