Mosque

[Sorazery]

already knew ryan's true colors when he didnt make g2 a mod cuz he spoke against him... so fuck em both. make yeat staff manager or this server is dead soon (already died when g2 got demoted) (fuckyou)

[Daan]

Maak eff een samenvatting in het Nederlands maat. Is voor Mike ook prettig.

[The underdog]

Maak eff een samenvatting in het Nederlands maat. Is voor Mike ook prettig.

Use ChatGPT

[Kylo ren]

Ok since we now got a reasonably clear picture of what happened given the staff situation... What now? Waiting for a super response, sure. If and when that will happen, up to them.

While we may have received both sides to the story (and a few extra tidbits from others who were involved), we still won't have the actual full story, because the story begins years ago, and there's always 3 sides to a story (yours, mine, and the truth). I'm sure that Mike and/or Rapsey will weigh in sooner or later. However, I'm sure they have their hands full already, and now they have to deal with this current mess. So I wouldn't be surprised if some time passes for things to cool down before we receive any word from either of them.

Ryan resigned, we thank him for his services to this game for all these years. I presume he actually does resign and not use his powers/ranks that he still has (I think he has, I'm banned so idk lol) until they are removed.

He likely won't use his powers unless dire circumstances arise, and he has no choice but to take action.

Church didn't say he's going to resign afaik. Church has mentioned the vote about him wasn't something that could have been based on all information. Church didn't explicitly mention what he wants moving forward.

Just because someone does not out-right state that they are resigning, doesn't mean that it hasn't been planned, discussed, or submitted. When I resigned from the staff team, I discussed it with Billy weeks prior before it actually went into effect, and then I had announced it to everyone. At this point, the decision has been made, and according to Jayden, someone who I believe is telling the truth, the entirety of the Staff Team made the decision without input from Ryan at all.

This vote wasn't something that should have happened in the first place, I strongly disagree with it. It was also not legitimate coming from Ryan. Church should not have been demoted. So... should he get his position back?

This is not for you, or any of us in the community to decide. This is a Staff Team issue, and regardless if you agree or disagree with it, the decision has been made. I would say that Church is lucky that it went to a vote at all, considering the alleged pre-approval from Rapsey. I'm not sure how you consider it illegitimate.

Since the demotion already happened and also the recent thread had multiple people including Jayden speak out against church... I don't see it as a healthy staff team working environment to bring Church back into it without Church being endorsed by the staff team itself. We don't want to make staff team tensions extremely high from the point we are at now.

Based off of Jayden's account of the events, it sounds like it is an absolute long shot for him to rejoin the team. Even so, his reintroduction to the team would most certainly cause tensions to rise even more. Not to mention, I'm sure it would be uncomfortable for Church to be placed back into his position, knowing that the team he is supposed to work with thinks so lowly of him.

I suggest the (entire) staff team once again votes about Church being part of the staff team. They now have a lot more information to make a better argumented decision. Will this vote now be a good idea where I say it was a bad idea first? I'm not sure, but it gives staff the opportunity to make things right even if the outcome is the same.

No point in a re-vote. If everyone on the team already expressed their thoughts and concerns about Church and his behavior towards them and others, and it's all negative, then there's no point in having another vote. Even with the information that came to light in the previous thread, it does not play a factor in how everyone on the team feels about him, and their unwillingness to continue working with him.

I think that, one thing people don't tend to consider much (or just simply forget about) is that a position on the staff team is a privilege. That privilege can be taken away at any time, for any reason, justified or not. Granted, no Staff Manager in their right mind would just wake up one day and demote someone "just because" or because "they felt like it". There almost always is a valid reasoning behind every demotion, whether it be for inactivity, breaking a rule, or resigning.

I also believe people forget that, as a staff member, you have to work in a team based setting. If you don't get along with a majority of the other members of the staff team, complain about everything constantly, have a Holier-Than-Thou complex, or any other negative qualities, then you can most certainly be demoted for, what I would call, "Behavior unbecoming of a Staff Member".

This also gives the supers something to work with instead of having to decide it by themselves entirely given their inactivity recently it might be difficult for them to have to make a decision of what to do.

Yes, something else to add to their extensive to-do list. I'm sure Mike and Rapsey are both thrilled to have to deal with such nonsense. I sincerely hope you read those sentences knowing full well that there are heavily sarcastic undertones.

The whole purpose of Mike and Rapsey having a Staff Manager is to ensure that matters like these are taken care of with little-to-no input from them. This is why the Staff Manager rank (previously Head Admin) over the years has been so incredibly exclusive to people who they can genuinely trust.

______________________________

I don't have much input on the situation, because my input, quite frankly, doesn't matter. What I will say, is that Mike and Rapsey chose Ryan as the successor to Billy. While many people may not have agreed with, or liked Ryan's decisions, or thought process on certain issues, they kept Ryan around this long for a reason, and that's because they've always known Ryan to do the best that he can for the betterment of the server, and the staff team.

I haven't had much interaction with Church, because the interactions I did have with him years ago were not pleasant, so I chose to not interact with him. However, Ryan and I have known each other for years, and I've had numerous conversations with him. I know that he's always had the best intentions for the Staff Team and the server, even back when he was just a trial moderator. People will have their biases against him for whatever their reasons may be, and sure, some of those reasons may have some validity to them. But nobody can tell me that Ryan did anything to intentionally disrupt, or hurt the server in any way.

[Scrash]

The 1 thing that Church and Ryan agreed on 100% was perma banning you

That fish emoji is extremely hilarious

[Jousi]

The thing that really gets me about all this is that even if Church really hadn't done anything to warrant his resignation/demotion, the way things stand is that most members of the staff team wanted him out. So there's a strong chance Church wouldn't have rejoined the team simply out of self-respect because he wouldn't want to work with people who dislike him, which just amounts to the same outcome: Church is done for.

It's that kind of underhandedness and sheer calculation (Church is damned if he did and damned if he didn't), which I find utterly contemptible. I wish this isn't the future of conflict resolution, but the past wasn't any better, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[The underdog]

Since the original thread on this situation is locked and I am therefore unable to quote without putting in a lot more effort I cba making the quotes on which I based my statements.

[Daan]

@Maurits 4 staff manager
@Rick 4 mongoltje

[Lykos]

The thing that really gets me about all this is that even if Church really hadn't done anything to warrant his resignation/demotion, the way things stand is that most members of the staff team wanted him out. So there's a strong chance Church wouldn't have rejoined the team simply out of self-respect because he wouldn't want to work with people who dislike him, which just amounts to the same outcome: Church is done for.

It's that kind of underhandedness and sheer calculation (Church is damned if he did and damned if he didn't), which I find utterly contemptible. I wish this isn't the future of conflict resolution, but the past wasn't any better, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Here's my issue, why are people avoiding to speak about Church, yea yea Ryan funny jerk man, but Church wasn't perfect either? People don't just wake up one day and choose to blindly hate someone or pretend to dislike without reason. Church had his faults. He followed the rules. He followed them so much in fact that it became his downfall. You can't moderate or administrate a community while enforcing rules with an iron fist.
We aren't kids playing Runescape anymore, the majority of us are young adults or older, of course there would be a huge distaste from the majority of players (including staff) when relating to Church. Yes rules exist for a reason and need to be enforced TO A DEGREE, but we shouldn't be policed or babied. There are times when the answers to a situation doesn't have to be solved by a wiki page, they are guidelines, not the constitution.

Look up the negative impacts of strictly following rules by adhering by them too much. What are the consequences?

• Blind obedience

• Moral dilemmas

• Stifled relationships

• Prevention of innovation

Kinda sounds familiar.
Many people, including the staff, having nothing against Church. But they still have the right to say that he probably isn't the best fit for the role nor is he best fit for the COMMUNITY we have now. We literally thrive off retard culture and half-baked memes.