Forums Crackdown

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Kylo ren
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Kylo ren » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:32 am

Azu rite wrote: With as big of a head as you got back then, how could we forget?

But I let a lot go without a warning until people decided they couldn't control themselves.
Unfortunately for me, it was normal for people to not be able to control themselves. So they brought out the Moderation Nazi in me themselves. Otherwise, I’d say that I was pretty relaxed for the most part.
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Treehugger
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Treehugger » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:55 am

Kylo ren wrote:
Azu rite wrote: With as big of a head as you got back then, how could we forget?

But I let a lot go without a warning until people decided they couldn't control themselves.
Unfortunately for me, it was normal for people to not be able to control themselves. So they brought out the Moderation Nazi in me themselves. Otherwise, I’d say that I was pretty relaxed for the most part.
Nah you were always really uptight
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Subnet
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Subnet » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:50 am

James wrote:
Kylo ren wrote:
Azu rite wrote: With as big of a head as you got back then, how could we forget?

But I let a lot go without a warning until people decided they couldn't control themselves.
Unfortunately for me, it was normal for people to not be able to control themselves. So they brought out the Moderation Nazi in me themselves. Otherwise, I’d say that I was pretty relaxed for the most part.
Nah you were always really uptight
Factual, This isn't even arguable..

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Ryan
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Ryan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:27 am

Fungamer wrote: Tbh if you get 20 mutes for minor things or 5 mutes for extreme offenses, you should still get punished as hard. We both know who has a ton of punishments racked up already. Might be shooting myself in the foot now, but most veterans/long time players know damn well how to walk on the line and push buttons to then whine about a harsh punishment while they "should" have gotten just a 6h mute. I say go on with it. Let people whine and outrages/drama happen. Be a fucking nazi if needed - but it's clear the rules and staff aren't respected anymore. People walking on the line are annoying to deal with. You know, when someone seemingly says or does something innocent while the intent is still to piss off or provoke another.

I disagree. Nothing indicates that the staff team aren't "Respected anymore". Infact, I'd argue just the opposite. Nowdays, even people that are "Hard to handle" tend to listen to us almost instantaneously (Yes, there are exceptions to this of course). Overall, it may seem to you guys like things ingame are really bad, but they're actually better then they have been for a long time now. Obviously there's always going to be a few trouble makers that contradict that statement, but the 'overall' attitude of the community is far better then previous years.

That being said, I'm all for increasing punishments on idiots that 'walk the line', just so long as you guys don't make a new thread everyday about how "harsh" we are now and how "Shitty the punishments are". If you want us to ramp up the punishments on petty offenses, I'm all for it but be careful what you wish for.
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Maurits
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Maurits » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:59 pm

Narrow down any game to 1 world with 200-300 players max in it and you'll end up with the same community almost every time.
You may try your best to fix it, but it will in most cases wind down to toxic people playing in between the people that just play for their amusement and the toxic people will stand out.
Work on it the way you believe your staff team should and don't make a big deal out of it.

I think clear punishment guidelines for staff and players would be a good push in cleaning stuff up.
I do have a plan on how to adjust certain things, but I know there's not much of a point in posting it here. (mainly due to time taken to write it all down)
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Lieven
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Lieven » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:48 pm

Ryan wrote: I disagree. Nothing indicates that the staff team aren't "Respected anymore". Infact, I'd argue just the opposite. Nowdays, even people that are "Hard to handle" tend to listen to us almost instantaneously (Yes, there are exceptions to this of course). Overall, it may seem to you guys like things ingame are really bad, but they're actually better then they have been for a long time now. Obviously there's always going to be a few trouble makers that contradict that statement, but the 'overall' attitude of the community is far better then previous years.
Oh, I can definitely agree on the point that in general the community listens and respects the staff team. I'm more referring to those trouble makers. The trouble makers are.. worse on the forums or in private than they used to be, and they don't fear any repercussions. Sure, they'll be quicker to listen to the staff team when told to knock it off, but sometimes they shouldn't be told to knock it off in the first place. Most trouble makers are long time players who've been playing for 2 or more years. They know very well they're breaking the rules and just break them until they're told to stop, and then repeat that behavior a while later.
Sure, there's a report system for reporting people when staff aren't present. But only a fraction of the community uses the forums, and less than half of those forums users know how to decently use the forums.
Next to that, it's also just tedious and annoying for players to report certain trouble makers every time they break rules ingame. When they break rules, it's kind of ruining the experience for players. But going through the effort of recording\screenshotting and uploading it to the forums is also ruining the experience. Is it lazy? Sure. Does it mean it's the wrong mindset of some players? No. On an ideal server, there would be little to no need for people to report.
That being said, I'm all for increasing punishments on idiots that 'walk the line', just so long as you guys don't make a new thread everyday about how "harsh" we are now and how "Shitty the punishments are". If you want us to ramp up the punishments on petty offenses, I'm all for it but be careful what you wish for.
:thumbsup: Definitely. Even if those threads with only complaining and whining are made, I tend to see it the same way as some idiot complaining on yell about his punishment that just ran out. As in, it's against the rules, so should be disregarded and archived. Anyone is free to make a thread about the rules, but it should remain constructive and respectful instead of turning into an endless discussion & flaming.
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Rapsey
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Rapsey » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:02 pm

Maurits wrote:Narrow down any game to 1 world with 200-300 players max in it and you'll end up with the same community almost every time.
You may try your best to fix it, but it will in most cases wind down to toxic people playing in between the people that just play for their amusement and the toxic people will stand out.
Work on it the way you believe your staff team should and don't make a big deal out of it.
I couldn't agree more.

It's difficult to accept though. The only way to deal with it without making a big deal out of it is by cleaning up quietly and silencing people. Because when it comes down to it, the toxic ones won't stop willingly. They'll keep on making a big deal out of it. Staff should not be trying to justify their actions until every meat popsicle with a keyboard is happy and satisfied. It's never gonna happen and all it does is make an even bigger deal out of it. I'm also pretty sure it only encourages them to keep going.

The hard thing is that the only alternative is to become seemingly authoritarian. It's the identity crisis of staff on PkHonor. On the one hand, needing to exert authority and enforce one established version of right and wrong, on the other hand trying to always be accountable and listen to everyone's input to make sure everyone approves of the course they are on.

I guess the golden answer is a staff team that has enough long-term support and approval from its community that it feels confident enough to be authoritarian and not get bogged down by the inevitable disagreements. Not that I think it's the community's job to motivate the staff team or something, but if all the staff team ever gets is the negative then I can only see things going one of two ways: either you get a team that constantly second-guesses themselves and keeps inconsistently going back and forth on everything, or you get a nazi team that ends up overdoing it with their entirely self-determined version of "the right way" because they only have themselves to rely on to know if they're doing the right thing, no one else ever tells them that.

You can't really be steadfast in your authority unless you feel secure in the knowledge that you are doing the right thing. That reinforcement has to come from somewhere, and if it seems impossible to ever feel like your community is standing behind you then all you can do is try to convince yourself and each other that are doing the right thing. It's either that or keep allowing every toxic troll to make you question yourself over and over and over again.

Or in other words, finding a way to be accountable to the whole without being 24/7 accountable to every single individual who feels like challenging you. A lot easier said than done.

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Ryan
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Ryan » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:51 am

Maurits wrote:Narrow down any game to 1 world with 200-300 players max in it and you'll end up with the same community almost every time.
You may try your best to fix it, but it will in most cases wind down to toxic people playing in between the people that just play for their amusement and the toxic people will stand out.
Work on it the way you believe your staff team should and don't make a big deal out of it.

I think clear punishment guidelines for staff and players would be a good push in cleaning stuff up.
I do have a plan on how to adjust certain things, but I know there's not much of a point in posting it here. (mainly due to time taken to write it all down)

Agreed.

We have a punishment guideline system in place, but unfortunately the unavoidable need for personal judgement almost always applies to cases like this. If everything were black and white, it'd be super easy to enforce everything without having to consider other factors, unfortunately that's almost never the case.

Adjustments are easy to make and will be done in the coming week, I think a few things just need tweaking. Ultimately, it'll come down to giving the 'toxic' players a final warning, if they choose to ignore it they'll have to live with the repercussions. But as always with those sorts of people, they make forum threads trying to discredit the server and everyone involved in it. Hence Adam's original post about increasing levels of forum toxicity.


The merry-go-round of PKHonor continues :P
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Madeinafrica
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Madeinafrica » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 am

wtf halp me man unmute ok or fakn no far ballshit n telk me @adam
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Jousi
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Re: Forums Crackdown

Post by Jousi » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:21 pm

At least everything that goes on here happens in written form. So whenever someone contests a decision or defends it, there's an undisputable document of the fact. No one can take that away.

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