Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Discuss anything and everything about PkHonor.

Multiple clues per tier

yes
45
68%
no
21
32%
 
Total votes: 66

User avatar
Iron bubble
Premium Donator
Posts: 1278
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:12 am
Location: Nowhere

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Iron bubble » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:57 pm

Sure, would make for some interesting goal setting
Image
Roasted by King Roald...

Sir Bubbles

Iron bubble

User avatar
Rapsey
Sysadmin
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Rapsey » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:08 pm

I voted no, but not really because of anything related to clues in particular.

It's pretty obvious why Jagex imposed this limitation. Since all same-items are identical you'd end up with the weird situation where you have the same riddle on 3 clue scrolls and then when you solve 1 of them, the riddle on the other 2 magically changes to something else. To me that does seem a bit crappy so I find it a good enough reason not to do it.

But mostly I'm just not a fan of trying to remove gameplay restrictions because "why not?", as if everything that doesn't have an irrefutable reason why it can't (or shouldn't) be done is a good idea in the pursuit of convenience. I realize it might seem illogical to support "unnecessary" limitations but if you get right down to it that's what games are: a collection of limitations for players to work with (or around), which is a large part of what makes them fun. If you go down this road you can just keep chipping away until there's practically no (enjoyable) game left. Most of the time you'll get the majority's support because eh, makes things easier for me and there's no obvious reason not to do it? Why not!

On polls ideas like these only get shot down if there are immediate negative consequences. As an extreme example, if someone were to suggest the convenience of having unlimited inventory space (or ::bank that works from anywhere) it would be shot down pretty hard because it would be completely unbalanced for skilling/PvM'ing/PK'ing etc. But those arguments kinda overshadow that even without all these obvious reasons it would still be a terrible idea. Only being able to have a limited number of items on you is one of the gameplay limitations that makes things fun and interesting. It's what gives meaning to loadouts and doing trips and whatnot. If you removed that limitation things would be way more boring, even if it is more convenient.

Of course being an RSPS we should make things easier than the base game and offer more conveniences. I'm certainly not against doing that, PkHonor already does this in so many aspects. But I do think we should be careful and selective in which conveniences we offer and which limitations we remove, otherwise we'd end up removing half the things that make the game interesting or challenging.

Maybe this clue scroll change is a good idea, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that it's a bad idea to do whatever is possible in the name of convenience, to do these things just because we can. In games things are often made better by having limitations, even if they are not strictly necessary.

User avatar
Azu rite
Premium Donator
Posts: 17600
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: Over there in that one place

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Azu rite » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:07 pm

Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
Image

User avatar
Rapsey
Sysadmin
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Rapsey » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 pm

Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
I like this approach because that way we can also avoid the weirdness of having identical / changing riddles on clue scrolls, since they all have different item ID's.

User avatar
Azu rite
Premium Donator
Posts: 17600
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: Over there in that one place

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Azu rite » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Rapsey wrote:
Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
I like this approach because that way we can also avoid the weirdness of having identical / changing riddles on clue scrolls, since they all have different item ID's.
Plus it would allow us to introduce master clues in the future
Image

User avatar
Gethigh udie
Premium Donator
Posts: 770
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:15 am

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Gethigh udie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:44 pm

Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
You can already have one of each tier?
Image

Vik
Honor Player
Posts: 4228
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:19 am
Location: EDGE

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Vik » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:15 pm

Gethigh udie wrote:
Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
You can already have one of each tier?
Imo keep it this way lol
Image

User avatar
Iron adam
Event Coordinator
Posts: 11693
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:07 am
Contact:

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Iron adam » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:26 pm

I am not crazy about the idea of all the clues having the same clue for each step. It definitely seems messy.
If storage space is the only issue with each clue displaying different steps, what about a compromise. Would it be feasible to increase the amount of unique clue scrolls of a specific tier to 2 or 5? It would require more storage space, but it would be a limited amount of space. If this would work within the confines of the game code, I think it would be the best option to keep both sides happy.

User avatar
Andres
Developer
Posts: 4846
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:23 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Andres » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:10 pm

Adamthalion wrote:I am not crazy about the idea of all the clues having the same clue for each step. It definitely seems messy.
If storage space is the only issue with each clue displaying different steps, what about a compromise. Would it be feasible to increase the amount of unique clue scrolls of a specific tier to 2 or 5? It would require more storage space, but it would be a limited amount of space. If this would work within the confines of the game code, I think it would be the best option to keep both sides happy.
Perfectly possible to cap it at 2 per tier. (Was thinking about that option yesterday as well)
If you cap it at 2 ( and I honestly think thats a good number, since the chances that you get 3 clues of same tier is very very low ) it is perfromance wise not that bad, so it won't be a problem to do it that way. If you cap at 2, you can make the clue riddles Unique ( so 2 different riddles per scroll, but of course there is a small chance you get the same riddle for both clues, but that is purely luck from RNG.
Image

User avatar
Rapsey
Sysadmin
Posts: 5505
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Post by Rapsey » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:19 am

Eh... I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sure you could generate and store two different clues but without any way to distinguish the items you could never make 2 unique clues of the same tier, right? You can put 2 riddles in the database and 2 clue scrolls on the account but there's never going to be a way to know which scroll is which riddle. Or are you planning to show both of the riddles on each of the clue scrolls? :P

@Adam: the only way I know of to make this possible is by duplicating each clue scroll as a new item with a different ID, for each of the clue types. Apparently we already have a whole bunch of them in our item DB, no clue why (sorry, bad pun). Then all you'd need is to code into the drops system that if you're about to get a clue drop, it checks which clue scroll item ID is still available for your account so you get a clue with the right ID. Then you could indeed have 2 separate and unique clue scrolls, each with its own riddle. Of course being 2 different items they wouldn't go on the same stack in your bank.

Somehow having it capped at 2 seems even weirder to me. No new player is ever going to figure that out until someone tells them. Don't think there's ever been an item you could only have X of, it's always been either unique or not.

Post Reply