Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

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Multiple clues per tier

yes
45
68%
no
21
32%
 
Total votes : 66
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Iron bubble » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:57 pm

Sure, would make for some interesting goal setting
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Rapsey » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:08 pm

I voted no, but not really because of anything related to clues in particular.

It's pretty obvious why Jagex imposed this limitation. Since all same-items are identical you'd end up with the weird situation where you have the same riddle on 3 clue scrolls and then when you solve 1 of them, the riddle on the other 2 magically changes to something else. To me that does seem a bit crappy so I find it a good enough reason not to do it.

But mostly I'm just not a fan of trying to remove gameplay restrictions because "why not?", as if everything that doesn't have an irrefutable reason why it can't (or shouldn't) be done is a good idea in the pursuit of convenience. I realize it might seem illogical to support "unnecessary" limitations but if you get right down to it that's what games are: a collection of limitations for players to work with (or around), which is a large part of what makes them fun. If you go down this road you can just keep chipping away until there's practically no (enjoyable) game left. Most of the time you'll get the majority's support because eh, makes things easier for me and there's no obvious reason not to do it? Why not!

On polls ideas like these only get shot down if there are immediate negative consequences. As an extreme example, if someone were to suggest the convenience of having unlimited inventory space (or ::bank that works from anywhere) it would be shot down pretty hard because it would be completely unbalanced for skilling/PvM'ing/PK'ing etc. But those arguments kinda overshadow that even without all these obvious reasons it would still be a terrible idea. Only being able to have a limited number of items on you is one of the gameplay limitations that makes things fun and interesting. It's what gives meaning to loadouts and doing trips and whatnot. If you removed that limitation things would be way more boring, even if it is more convenient.

Of course being an RSPS we should make things easier than the base game and offer more conveniences. I'm certainly not against doing that, PkHonor already does this in so many aspects. But I do think we should be careful and selective in which conveniences we offer and which limitations we remove, otherwise we'd end up removing half the things that make the game interesting or challenging.

Maybe this clue scroll change is a good idea, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that it's a bad idea to do whatever is possible in the name of convenience, to do these things just because we can. In games things are often made better by having limitations, even if they are not strictly necessary.

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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Azu rite » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:07 pm

Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Rapsey » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:20 pm

Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes

I like this approach because that way we can also avoid the weirdness of having identical / changing riddles on clue scrolls, since they all have different item ID's.

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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Azu rite » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Rapsey wrote:
Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes

I like this approach because that way we can also avoid the weirdness of having identical / changing riddles on clue scrolls, since they all have different item ID's.

Plus it would allow us to introduce master clues in the future
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Gethigh udie » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:44 pm

Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes


You can already have one of each tier?
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Fear » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:15 pm

Gethigh udie wrote:
Azu rite wrote:Same clue? No

But if you ask if we should be able to have easy, med, hard, and elites then yes


You can already have one of each tier?

Imo keep it this way lol
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Iron adam » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:26 pm

I am not crazy about the idea of all the clues having the same clue for each step. It definitely seems messy.
If storage space is the only issue with each clue displaying different steps, what about a compromise. Would it be feasible to increase the amount of unique clue scrolls of a specific tier to 2 or 5? It would require more storage space, but it would be a limited amount of space. If this would work within the confines of the game code, I think it would be the best option to keep both sides happy.

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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Andres » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:10 pm

Adamthalion wrote:I am not crazy about the idea of all the clues having the same clue for each step. It definitely seems messy.
If storage space is the only issue with each clue displaying different steps, what about a compromise. Would it be feasible to increase the amount of unique clue scrolls of a specific tier to 2 or 5? It would require more storage space, but it would be a limited amount of space. If this would work within the confines of the game code, I think it would be the best option to keep both sides happy.


Perfectly possible to cap it at 2 per tier. (Was thinking about that option yesterday as well)
If you cap it at 2 ( and I honestly think thats a good number, since the chances that you get 3 clues of same tier is very very low ) it is perfromance wise not that bad, so it won't be a problem to do it that way. If you cap at 2, you can make the clue riddles Unique ( so 2 different riddles per scroll, but of course there is a small chance you get the same riddle for both clues, but that is purely luck from RNG.
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Re: Multiple clues of the same tier ? yay or nay?

Postby Rapsey » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:19 am

Eh... I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Sure you could generate and store two different clues but without any way to distinguish the items you could never make 2 unique clues of the same tier, right? You can put 2 riddles in the database and 2 clue scrolls on the account but there's never going to be a way to know which scroll is which riddle. Or are you planning to show both of the riddles on each of the clue scrolls? :P

@Adam: the only way I know of to make this possible is by duplicating each clue scroll as a new item with a different ID, for each of the clue types. Apparently we already have a whole bunch of them in our item DB, no clue why (sorry, bad pun). Then all you'd need is to code into the drops system that if you're about to get a clue drop, it checks which clue scroll item ID is still available for your account so you get a clue with the right ID. Then you could indeed have 2 separate and unique clue scrolls, each with its own riddle. Of course being 2 different items they wouldn't go on the same stack in your bank.

Somehow having it capped at 2 seems even weirder to me. No new player is ever going to figure that out until someone tells them. Don't think there's ever been an item you could only have X of, it's always been either unique or not.

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