Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

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Jousi
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Jousi » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:55 am

The amount of rich players seems disproportionate to the amount of new players. The appearance of that can skew player expectations when they join this server. It definitely plays into the content we get as Thoby stated.

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Lieven
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Lieven » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:33 pm

Idk tbh. Players being able to sell elites is one of the only/best ways to move some of the ridiculous amount of GP that the people with 1t+ banks have to the rest of the community. Making it untradeable only increases the gap between poor people and rich players. I don't think any new player has complained about elites giving them a big unneeded boost. I see it as a deserved boost so they can finally get a bit of gear that they expect to use on an RSPS.

Also, wouldn't it massively screw over new PKers? They'd have to grind content they don't want to grind for even longer. If they get an elite and sell it, they'll finally be able to buy a spec weapon to at least compete with the people there. If caskets become untradeable I can see that loads of new PKers would just quit because they have to grind skilling/pvm for 10+ hours before they can even think about entering the wilderness.


As for the "rich friend gives you a custom whip at the start"-argument: On OSRS and other RSPS yeah, it'd make the game too easy instantly. But on PKH? Idk. There's a lot of grinding that still has to be done on PKH that having money wont solve (unless you get a service). I think you could argue that getting a big boost like that in the start actually motivates people to keep playing, as they'll have skipped the very tedious content that no one wants to do and no one is proud of achieving it.
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Church
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Church » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:50 pm

This is a rather difficult question I will admit. I do have some thoughts but I suppose the one question I need answered before I explain is: Will the items within caskets retain the same tradability they have now?

If yes: I'm 100% on board, this is a great idea. Finding ways to push players to complete content for items they need is great. Expecting players to do other content to make money for stuff is fine and all, but it doesn't even particularly help if no one is selling the items they need. This would be a great way (perhaps with some drop table updates) to get people to head back to older bosses to farm out items.

If no: I'm against it, players who can't do things who give you clues often enough need a method to obtain clue only items.
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Ensignor » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Thoby wrote: That is correct. Easily getting loads of cash ≠ enjoying a game. It completely devalues the progress-curve, something PkHonor drives on.
Its the same as getting a load of cash from a friend when you just started. You won't have to grind barrows, you won't have to try to earn some cash from skilling, etc.
At the end of the day you don't find any motivation to enjoy the things that earn you a lower amount of cash, cause well- why would you?
Well not everyone wants to spend hours on end to progress slowly and grind more for GP when at the current status of Pkhonor most people have big bank. People will progress at the pace they want to, this idea just slows it down immensely and skills like construction, donator/premium statuses all take longer to achieve which I don't think people want to spend time for.

To me, private servers were always something thats supposed to be a quicker version of the real game and if we're ultimately going to make the grinds closer/same as the real game, then why not play that instead.

This idea would've been better if we still had the 2016 players but its just not ideal anymore.

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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Thierryu1 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:26 pm

Flying through the game with a 2b drop? Did you see the prices for a donator + premium status to even begin playing?
I think noobs need more ways of making money quick. Because when I first started I had my necessities quite fast and could focus on the fun stuff, while these days you need to grind some boring mobs over and over in hopes for a good drop like an elite.
Give stats a cap on how much you can trade or sell these for. Because when I'm at home I don't hear noobs talk about how easy they get elites and how fast they fly through it, rather how tedious the beginning stages are.

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Thoby
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Thoby » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:32 pm

Natte droom wrote:Idk tbh. Players being able to sell elites is one of the only/best ways to move some of the ridiculous amount of GP that the people with 1t+ banks have to the rest of the community. Making it untradeable only increases the gap between poor people and rich players. I don't think any new player has complained about elites giving them a big unneeded boost. I see it as a deserved boost so they can finally get a bit of gear that they expect to use on an RSPS.
I understand that new players don't complain about free cash, who would ;) And don't forget they will still get items worth some value, but just not a definite amount.
About the gap between the rich and the poor, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Think back of Luna's dropparty (I Am Mexican), where the wealth of just one rich player was quite evenly spread around the community.
I can argue that this wasn't a healthy thing for the economy. The eco had to re-establish itself for months to follow. I am focused on the game quality of newer players.
It's really not a weird thing that some players have a bank worth 1T when they have been around for years.

Natte droom wrote:Also, wouldn't it massively screw over new PKers? They'd have to grind content they don't want to grind for even longer. If they get an elite and sell it, they'll finally be able to buy a spec weapon to at least compete with the people there. If caskets become untradeable I can see that loads of new PKers would just quit because they have to grind skilling/pvm for 10+ hours before they can even think about entering the wilderness.
If clue caskets are the main source of people pking, we have a whole different problem haha. But seriously, lets add new items to the BH store then. Lets make PKing more accessible overall.
I think that would be a more suitable solution. Especially where clue scrolls are meant for fun rewards, instead of hard cash.

Natte droom wrote:As for the "rich friend gives you a custom whip at the start"-argument: On OSRS and other RSPS yeah, it'd make the game too easy instantly. But on PKH? Idk. There's a lot of grinding that still has to be done on PKH that having money wont solve (unless you get a service). I think you could argue that getting a big boost like that in the start actually motivates people to keep playing, as they'll have skipped the very tedious content that no one wants to do and no one is proud of achieving it.
I personally don't agree. You can already get barrows items on here within an item, something that OSRS only offers after weeks of progress. But progressing to bandos, to me, is medium-tiered content on here. Getting to the mid-tier by a single 'non-uniqe' drop feels off to me. But hey, that's my personal opinion.

Church wrote:This is a rather difficult question I will admit. I do have some thoughts but I suppose the one question I need answered before I explain is: Will the items within caskets retain the same tradability they have now?

If yes: I'm 100% on board, this is a great idea. Finding ways to push players to complete content for items they need is great. Expecting players to do other content to make money for stuff is fine and all, but it doesn't even particularly help if no one is selling the items they need. This would be a great way (perhaps with some drop table updates) to get people to head back to older bosses to farm out items.
What I'm suggesting is that all items will stay completely tradeable! Simply the caskets will become untradeable. The rewards can still be obtained from other players.
And that's exactly what I'm aiming at: make existing / new bosses more fun & vialable than they currently are!

Ensignor wrote:Well not everyone wants to spend hours on end to progress slowly and grind more for GP when at the current status of Pkhonor most people have big bank. People will progress at the pace they want to, this idea just slows it down immensely and skills like construction, donator/premium statuses all take longer to achieve which I don't think people want to spend time for.
I don't really agree. If people just wanted everything quick and easy, they'd turn to a spawn-server. We're a server that drives on progress and an economy.
Ofcourse there is a sweet spot, we still want easy progress. But we want progress. Something procedural.

Ensignor wrote:To me, private servers were always something thats supposed to be a quicker version of the real game and if we're ultimately going to make the grinds closer/same as the real game, then why not play that instead.

This idea would've been better if we still had the 2016 players but its just not ideal anymore.
I'm not aiming at comparable rates to OSRS. I'm simply trying to balance early-game progress. Like I mentioned before, you can still get into bossing within an hour.
But getting to end game content with just a few non-unique clue scroll drops ruins this feeling of progress.

There's a reason we have a low amount of players sticking around, and I just want to start focussing on their enjoyment. No-one likes a game where progress doesn't have a real value. And these are aimed as steps in the right direction.
And I really do understand that our older players don't like the idea. But we've been listening solely to suggestions from the established community for a little while now, without thinking about our new players.

Thierryu1 wrote:Flying through the game with a 2b drop? Did you see the prices for a donator + premium status to even begin playing?
I think noobs need more ways of making money quick. Because when I first started I had my necessities quite fast and could focus on the fun stuff, while these days you need to grind some boring mobs over and over in hopes for a good drop like an elite.
Give stats a cap on how much you can trade or sell these for. Because when I'm at home I don't hear noobs talk about how easy they get elites and how fast they fly through it, rather how tedious the beginning stages are.
The prices of donator + premium status have been going up since the supply went down. I don't think that's a fair way of measuring ingame gold.

Don't get me wrong, people can still open the clue caskets and get rewards, like always. I simply suggest making them untradeable to sell for a guaranteed 2b.
That clue scroll might contain 2b worth of items, who knows. Maybe even more. But whenever I get an elite clue scroll, it just feels like a 2b cash drop.
And I agree, sure, lets focus on different ways of obtaining items & cash in the early-game. I just don't think something like the elite clue scroll should be the solution.


I'm open to change my mind. I truly am. But I can't really think of a good argument on keeping them tradeable vs making them untradeable.
Feel free to send me a message, I'd gladly have a chat!
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Respire1337
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Respire1337 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:53 pm

When one of the developers has to make an official suggestion on forums and has to say stuff like "let's make x thing better", you know that the problem is found higher.
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Lieven » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:11 pm

If clue caskets are the main source of people pking, we have a whole different problem haha. But seriously, lets add new items to the BH store then. Lets make PKing more accessible overall.
I think that would be a more suitable solution. Especially where clue scrolls are meant for fun rewards, instead of hard cash.
I agree it's a different problem, byt changing it will still impact it severely. The issue we have is that the only really viable spec weapons on here are claws and ags. Making those very accessible will make killing armadyl even worse and destroy whatever incentive TDS and d imps might still have.

I'll have to respectfully disagree on clues only being for fun. They're big moneymakers on both OSRS and rs3. On OSRS at least, people buy loads of imps and open them to get clues. I know the very first intent of clues being added to the game might not be for making money, but it kinda is. True, you can't buy the caskets on both games, but I don't see it as a negative. It's one of the "good" custom things pkh has. Next to that, I think we should embrace clues being a moneymaker like both OSRS and rs3 do. There could be cool updates and things centered around them being moneymakers.
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Ely
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Ely » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:36 pm

Respire1337 wrote:When one of the developers has to make an official suggestion on forums and has to say stuff like "let's make x thing better", you know that the problem is found higher.
?
Well I think its more starting the debate, if this was just implemented without any discussion, overnight, it might not be what the players want and cause some backlash. ‘’Lets make x thing better’’ yeh in his opinion it might be better, but he shouldn’t get to speak for the entire player base because he’s a developer.

Overall, I’ve always found clues not worth opening on here, sure you get a chance at the magic stone, but in reality you’ll never get more then a few 100 mill, and that’s only because the rune items and other clue items have a high alch value. Looking at master clues, they’re definity going in the right direction, I like the fact you can actually get more then the going price of 3b, without hitting the magic stone purely because other items, also found in the donation shop are also on the drop table.

I think if clue scrolls become un-tradable, we should have a serious rethink of the drop table. We’ve shot ourselves in the foot with other means of obtaining sort after rares (third age, gilded, mystery box drop table) but I honestly think some of the ornament kits would have a cosmetic value and help to find a middle ground between 400m / 250b.
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Re: Clue scroll caskets - Hit or miss?

Post by Pvm porn » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:50 pm

So I agree and disagree and I'll explain why I disagree. Why I agree is because you made a ton of good points. I just think that as a new player the offie chance at 2b from barrows or miths or frosts or something can help push people in the right direction without giving them an OP advantage.

For instance when I was a massive noob I wasn't very confident in bossing so I killed miths, got a lucky elite, which led to me buying a BCP and going bossing, something that wouldn't have happened without a little nudge in the right direction.

Also bear in mind that almost every player that has Bandos wants Torva and a few bils isn't a massive skip when max melee and 2 customs costs like 100b (ignoring nice things like pring and tanz/magma and stuff, other combat styles/weapons). What I'm trying to say is players will always have something to grind for, whether or not they get an elite early on.

Still I think it would be good if caskets were made untradeable if there were buffs in terms of how new players make money.

Maybe something as simple as slightly raising the other droprates to find a middle-ground for profitability of low-level things like miths and barrows, or adding master casket uniques to elites on a very rare basis so that someone who opens 10 elites can still have a chance to make decent money. Let's be completely honest finding a clue item buyer is hard these days especially for someone without access to the yell so I don't think those are giving people fair opportunity to progress.

For the most part I'm on-board I'd just like to know that we wouldn't be pushing away players who would have stayed because of lucky elites from miths or barrows or frosts or whatever under the current system. Like you should still be rewarded, maybe not 2b at a time but giving someone ~500m for getting incredibly lucky should still be a thing, to me at least.
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