Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Discuss anything and everything about PkHonor.
Premium Donator
User avatar
Posts: 1355
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:26 am

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Slap a ho » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:57 pm

Cancerstick wrote:So why are donator credit's not tradeable? Why is one person, using IRL money, buying in game credits for another person in exchange for in game currency at a rate higher than what the server has set for exchanges? Does the $20 spent suddenly not become a tangible item because it's going to the server and not me or you? In all reality the $20 in either case isn't tangible at all unless I'm sending you a solid $20 bill via snail mail.

It’s a player made deal. The servers store doesn’t dictate that 1b = 500 credits. If you have 100b, it doesn’t mean your account is worth the equivalent of 50,000 credits. If you feel like you’re getting ripped off, then simply don’t buy from him, or counter offer with 2b per 1k credits. Or, donate yourself.

Sorry, tangible probably isn’t the right word, but it’s the only one I could think of to help describe what I’m trying to show. But anyways, yes - the $20 going to the server is ok, and it’s a good thing at that. The server is a business. Businesses do not operate for free. If it wasn’t for MXT, there would be no PKHonor. To think the lot of you is complaining about someone supporting their server because they have some cash flow and don’t mind spending it on a virtual currency is beyond baffling.

Someone mentioned this P2W thing. If someone wants to spend $5,000 on 1b tickets from the store, should we expect to see another thread requesting that we delete the donator store? Lol.

Imo, the only reason this is an issue is because
    1) it’s Will Be Ok, the infamous drama starter and people have a personal vendetta towards him.
    2) He’s profiting heavily on virtual currency because he has real money to float towards the server and he’s not having to put in the time/effort to actually obtain it.
    3) People see it as him overcharging others because the server has set pricing in the donator store which they believe is the same as money already ingame vs. money being spawned.
Cancerstick wrote:Is this not a "in game service for IRL money" that you agreed would be RWT? Would I not be providing you a "donation service", (as it has been put by the guy doing it), trading IRL money for in game items? You can't hold the money sent to you online.

It’s not an ingame service for IRL money. The money is not going to another player. The money is going to the server for credits. Credits are applied towards the objects in the donator store. Mystery boxes, custom whips, statuses, are all items in the game through IRL donations. You think they just magically appear in the game? If you want to be that critical, anytime you buy a custom, mystery box, grain, gilded, or status, you’re committing RWT and should be banned as such. That’s literally what’s occurring in this discussion. Credits can be applied to ANY account. Just like you’re able to sell votes (IRL service for ingame currency btw). I guess we should start banning the vote sellers too, yeah?
Image

Premium Donator
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Will be ok » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:37 pm

At the end of the day this is a service offered. It’s very clear that there was a decision made to allow this.
Not 1 person can justify how much IRL money is worth on a game. I am selling credits to a VERY niche market. Mainly people who wanted 1K credits to buy the Santa’s pet (event item) and also for people who wanted a little bit of a head start on their HCIM to obtain PreM right away.

Someone had asked why not give donor tickets then?
I could be wrong but I do believe it’s because you can already buy donor creds for free?? You vote... 2 vote creds = 1 donor cred. Now if they were to sell “donor point tickets” it would lesser the donations by an insane amount and the donations to come into the server would deminish huge.

For all of those saying this shouldn’t be allowed may I ask how this effects you directly at all? No new tradeable items are being spawned into the sever, people are getting the things they want (Santa’s pet or PREM on HCIM or IM accounts and I’m getting my tickets. On top of this the owners of the server get more capital and more payment for the countless hours they’ve recently put in. (More updates in the past 2 months then ever since I’ve joined)

The only downside to this is where scamming may happen which is a big risk that the buyer takes. Because a chargeback may occur. Thankfully for my service nobody has to worry about this as I’m quite weathly IRL and I’m not effected by the $400-$500 i’ve Donated, where regardless i would NEVER try and do a charge back.

Like stated before this is a service offered to a very niche market, it’s not in any case smart for someone to give me 40B in return for 5K creds on a regular account for their donor & PreM status when they can buy it in game for 12B. On this ending note, nobody is forced to buy credits from the server or buy credits from me. If you see my prices as fair and justifyable then great, if not then just don’t use my service?
Image

Premium Donator
Posts: 8815
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Fungamer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:38 pm

Slap a ho wrote:
Someone mentioned this P2W thing. If someone wants to spend $5,000 on 1b tickets from the store, should we expect to see another thread requesting that we delete the donator store? Lol.

2) He’s profiting heavily on virtual currency because he has real money to float towards the server and he’s not having to put in the time/effort to actually obtain it.

I 100% disagree. What the server gives you (or can give you) should always be the most bang for your buck (unless you break the rules). No one should be allowed to have such marginal profits outside of what the server offers you.

You can go full on p2w and buy $5000 in 1b tickets in the donator store. I don't care. But profiting more than x3? No. No. No. Donate 15K in that case. You shouldn't gain more GP by donating for others. The whole point of donating is supporting the server, where in turn the SERVER or "owner" gives you a reward, not a fellow player.

Pros of selling credits:
  • Some lazy kid can get an ez start on (HC)IM
  • You can get a pet

Cons:
  • Scam potential.
  • Shady in general. This is extremely unusual for PKHonor, and there's no clear "guidelines" for players themselves how they should handle this etc.
  • Potentially rips off players who didn't do the maths and realized buying a donator store item from a player is cheaper than buying the credits
  • HUGE hacking potential for in the future. If a player can show he has donated over 2500 credits for a "shared" account, they get the ownership if they recover it. Who's to say people who offer these service wont wait a couple of months before going rogue & getting even more MARGINAL profits from potentially hacking the person they donated for.

Sure, they get banned if they get scammed or hacked. Staff wouldn't even have to bother with that shit if it wasn't allowed/tolerated anyways. Hell no. I'll never support this. This should be a nobrainer.
Image
wordt* btw. Ape IQ at its finest :lol:

Premium Donator
User avatar
Posts: 1355
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:26 am

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Slap a ho » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:32 pm

Spoiler: show
Fungamer wrote:
Slap a ho wrote:
Someone mentioned this P2W thing. If someone wants to spend $5,000 on 1b tickets from the store, should we expect to see another thread requesting that we delete the donator store? Lol.

2) He’s profiting heavily on virtual currency because he has real money to float towards the server and he’s not having to put in the time/effort to actually obtain it.

I 100% disagree. What the server gives you (or can give you) should always be the most bang for your buck (unless you break the rules). No one should be allowed to have such marginal profits outside of what the server offers you.

You can go full on p2w and buy $5000 in 1b tickets in the donator store. I don't care. But profiting more than x3? No. No. No. Donate 15K in that case. You shouldn't gain more GP by donating for others. The whole point of donating is supporting the server, where in turn the SERVER or "owner" gives you a reward, not a fellow player.

Pros of selling credits:
  • Some lazy kid can get an ez start on (HC)IM
  • You can get a pet

Cons:
  • Scam potential.
  • Shady in general. This is extremely unusual for PKHonor, and there's no clear "guidelines" for players themselves how they should handle this etc.
  • Potentially rips off players who didn't do the maths and realized buying a donator store item from a player is cheaper than buying the credits
  • HUGE hacking potential for in the future. If a player can show he has donated over 2500 credits for a "shared" account, they get the ownership if they recover it. Who's to say people who offer these service wont wait a couple of months before going rogue & getting even more MARGINAL profits from potentially hacking the person they donated for.

Sure, they get banned if they get scammed or hacked. Staff wouldn't even have to bother with that shit if it wasn't allowed/tolerated anyways. Hell no. I'll never support this. This should be a nobrainer.

You didn’t have a problem with it when Simon was buying donator credits for the exact same margin. https://forums.pkhonor.net/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=70226

Simon bought 92.5k credits @ 20b per 2.5k (this breaks out to 8b per 1k). Simon spent 740b on credits and not a single person bitched about it then. So a year later, now that someone else is doing the same exact thing, it’s an issue?

Again, this whole thread is because of the person doing the service. If it was Simon doing it again, nobody would say shit.

More sources:
Spoiler: show
https://forums.pkhonor.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=70004
Rapsey wrote:
Counterret wrote:Looks cool! While we at it, is it allowed to let people donate in exchange for in-game cash?
It was once allowed by you on jad pet release so that people could gamble for fire capes. So just to be clear. If person x wants to donate 5 $ and i need the donator pts, therefor ill reward him slightly more, is that RWT or allowed? In fact im not receiving irl cash but just to be sure.

Letting someone else donate for your account is certainly allowed. In fact it's one of the reasons why we enable people to donate for any account without requiring a login. If you compensate them for it in-game that would not be considered RWT, though I would advise caution. As of yet there is no real scam-prevention for this sort of thing so it relies on trust, and of course, if a random observer sees you talking about real world money in exchange for in-game money they could easily jump to the conclusion that you are RWT'ing.

Basically RWT means trading something in-game for something IRL. What you're talking about is trading in-game money for in-game credits, and the only reason you'd even have to do it this way is because there's currently no way to trade credits. In the interests of preventing scamming I expect we'll be making credits a tradeable item at some point, then it would also be far more obvious that it is indeed allowed.

EDIT: Actually, don't hold me to that one just yet. We'll have to think it over if making credits tradeable is a good idea.


I know there was a thread that Simon made stating he was buying donator credits for PkH gp, but I cannot locate it. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

Fungamer wrote:Cons:
  • Scam potential.
  • Shady in general. This is extremely unusual for PKHonor, and there's no clear "guidelines" for players themselves how they should handle this etc.
  • Potentially rips off players who didn't do the maths and realized buying a donator store item from a player is cheaper than buying the credits
  • HUGE hacking potential for in the future. If a player can show he has donated over 2500 credits for a "shared" account, they get the ownership if they recover it. Who's to say people who offer these service wont wait a couple of months before going rogue & getting even more MARGINAL profits from potentially hacking the person they donated for.

These cons are grasping at straws. The accounts aren’t shared, it’s evidently clear of that. You don’t need to login to an account to apply credits. The recovery process is a bit more complicated than just showing that you donated for another account lol.
  • Scams are possible because it’s a player made deal. This rule applies for numerous occasions, like item loans for example. Exercise caution as usual.
  • I don’t think this is the least bit of shady. What practices are occurring to merit this a shady transaction? Proof? Evidence?
  • It’s not his job to educate the player. The player should educate themselves before a transaction occurs. Should we pass out education pamphlets, a waiver, and require a signature before a transaction occurs?
  • Regarding margins, see my response above about Simon doing the same thing.
Image

Premium Donator
Posts: 8815
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Fungamer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:49 pm

Slap a ho wrote:
I know there was a thread that Simon made stating he was buying donator credits for PkH gp, but I cannot locate it. Maybe someone else will have better luck.


Me not saying anything about it isn't the same about not agreeing. I personally think that that is wrong too. I'll be even bolder and say that, in my eyes, Simon didn't deserve the pet. He should've grinded or donated for the firecapes himself. And yes, I am aware of having posted on that specific thread, but it was not about the "legality" of the thing. Why that this argument about Simon is relevant isn't really clear to me either. I couldn't care less that it's "Will be ok" doing the service - if you've been up to date with the whole clan BS, you'd actually have to expect that I'd stick up for the guy because he's also an underdog. You're contradicting yourself if you think I am biased about this, since if I were to be biased I'd be supporting him.


The recovery process is a bit more complicated than just showing that you donated for another account lol.

No, really? :P
You should know that with recoveries with not so recent logins, a transaction ID is one of the, if not the #1 way to prove you're the account owner. If you can bullshit your way out of the other security questions which don't really require you to be the owner of an account you'll probably get the account. Is this wrong? No. Not at all. Since a transaction ID is something that only the account OWNER should have. Even without a donation ID, it's pretty darn easy to make a recovery to hack someone who hasn't played in a while. For example, I could whip out a VPN, make sure my IP is one from the US and recover Vincent G (ex mod, no need for me to recover his account since he lets me use his when I want to fuck around with his death anyways :doge: ) and a few of his alts. Don't know the ISP? Just bullshit that you were lived at your parents or W.E when you last logged on, so you don't really know.
What I'm trying to say is, that with a transaction ID you're even more credible lmao


Scams are possible because it’s a player made deal. This rule applies for numerous occasions, like item loans for example. Exercise caution as usual.

Yeah. And there's still a lot of scamming cases happening. The staff team is there to punish rule breakers, but that shouldn't mean it should be easy to break them as well.

I don’t think this is the least bit of shady. What practices are occurring to merit this a shady transaction? Proof? Evidence?

You pay a random dude PKH GP so he can make a donation under your name with real life money. Mhm. Not shady at all.

It’s not his job to educate the player. The player should educate themselves before a transaction occurs. Should we pass out education pamphlets, a waiver, and require a signature before a transaction occurs?

This is a reason why ::prices etc are here, or that the GE displays the guide price. It's a game, dude. Are you sitting in front of your laptop, calculating everything so you can be such an educated player? It's supposed to be fun and have quick, short transactions where you shouldn't per se need to "educate" yourself. In an ideal world, the exact current street price would be displayed in the trade screen, so that both parties don't get ripped off.

Even if this stays allowed, it should be clear towards the buyer that they're buying credits at a much higher price than what their maximal value out of the donator store is.
Last edited by Fungamer on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
wordt* btw. Ape IQ at its finest :lol:

Honor Player
User avatar
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:07 am
Location: Middle Earth

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Adamthalion » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:53 pm

Fungamer wrote:You should know that with recoveries with not so recent logins, a transaction ID is one of the, if not the #1 way to prove you're the account owner.

Its never 100% proof though. At least not when I do recoveries. I always look at the transaction date. And if something looks off, I just ask Rapsey for more details. Not going to give away an account because someone got a donation on it for 1k credits lol.

Even if it did lead to an account getting recovered like in the situation you describe, that sucks. Shouldn't have been so careless with your account information and personal information.

Premium Donator
Posts: 8815
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Fungamer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:05 pm

Admin adam wrote:Even if it did lead to an account getting recovered like in the situation you describe, that sucks. Shouldn't have been so careless with your account information and personal information.

It's not really being careless with your account information if it's the admin giving said information away :badjokeeel:

As for the personal information.. Dude... Look at the format. If I for example try to hack Moleman (ex mod too, and a Norwegian player), I would know his information without even having to really talk to him. I can literally fill in a question by going to his PoH and looking at his past moderator application. Next to that I wouldn't even have to look at his application - it's just where he lives lmao. Chances of someone refusing to say where they're from with just a 5min chat are pretty low. As a hacker you'd have to be pretty darn unlucky that the player you're trying to hack moved countries or states while playing PKHonor. The only thing I wouldn't know would be the ISP - which you can BS your way through (either guess with a known\common one for that country/state/W.E or just say you forgot.

All I'm trying to say is that people are making their account even more vulnerable in a way that many people wouldn't even know they did. I'll repeat it again as I edited it into my post while you were replying:

A transaction ID is something that only the account owner should have access to.
Image
wordt* btw. Ape IQ at its finest :lol:

Premium Donator
Online
User avatar
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:53 pm
Location: Loc

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby The underdog » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:32 am

Fungamer wrote:
Admin adam wrote:Even if it did lead to an account getting recovered like in the situation you describe, that sucks. Shouldn't have been so careless with your account information and personal information.

If I for example try to hack Moleman (ex mod too, and a Norwegian player), I would know his information without even having to really talk to him. I can literally fill in a question by going to his PoH and looking at his past moderator application. Next to that I wouldn't even have to look at his application -


Ez blackmail with nudes







:doge:
Spoiler: show
Image












Spoiler: show
Image
Image

Premium Donator
User avatar
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Braxton » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:41 am

I believe it's not the developers fault for this, we essentially have nice enough community members who offer such a great rate perhaps?
Image

Premium Donator
Posts: 8815
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Re: Paying 8B for the pet that is worth 20B

Postby Fungamer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:28 am

The underdog wrote:
Fungamer wrote:
Admin adam wrote:Even if it did lead to an account getting recovered like in the situation you describe, that sucks. Shouldn't have been so careless with your account information and personal information.

If I for example try to hack Moleman (ex mod too, and a Norwegian player), I would know his information without even having to really talk to him. I can literally fill in a question by going to his PoH and looking at his past moderator application. Next to that I wouldn't even have to look at his application -


Ez blackmail with nudes

Long norwegian pener
Image
wordt* btw. Ape IQ at its finest :lol:

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Capt swift and 7 guests