Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

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Should we alter teleblock and dragon spear mechanics?

Don't introduce teleblock immunity.
11
13%
Make someone immune against teleblock for 5 ticks (3 seconds) after teleblock has expired.
4
5%
Make someone immune against teleblock for 50 ticks (30 seconds) after teleblock has expired.
16
19%
Don't introduce immunity after a dragon spear special.
8
9%
Make players immune against stun for 1 tick and immune against freeze/bind/snare/entangle for 5 ticks after being stunned (how it currently is in OSRS).
18
21%
Allow players to be stunned & shoved while frozen.
11
13%
Don't allow players to be stunned while frozen.
8
9%
Don't allow players to be stunned while frozen and also make them immune against stun for 5 ticks (3 seconds) after being frozen.
10
12%
 
Total votes: 86

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Thearlygamer
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Thearlygamer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:42 pm

Nazuths wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:07 am
There is also not really anyone to PK anymore either, the opposing clans don't enter the wild, neither do the HCIMs, and the few PvMers that are in wild risk a ring of wealth and black d'hides.
Maybe if all the pkers fought each other with risk instead of clanning together y'all would have more fights. Of course the players who don't want to risk their hardcore status wont and the irons that have to go to wild for achievements will risk the bare minimum.

I agree I'd rather focus on making methods to make pkers want to pk each other again, but when they all join the same clan and bully the smaller clans out of existance then complain that there's no one left to fight you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot there.
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Stale fish1
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Stale fish1 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:46 pm

Nazuths wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:07 am
Elon musky wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:15 am
We already have a control in effect where if a player is skilled enough, and gets his protection prayer up, he gets half TBed. This is in sense a reward for skillful gameplay. Being able to be unlimitedly TBed without a chance to utilize your skills to prevent a death completely defeats the purpose of having these skill based mechanics. Using work arounds to completely avoid things like TB timers shouldn’t be a thing; so introducing a game mechanic to remove the work arounds is a good idea to me.
This is hilarious, so putting on mage prayer is skillful, but d spear tbing is not skillful? In my entire PKing career on here, I have never been d spear tbed simply because the skill required for this is something my opponents don't have. Sure, people like me and @The underdog make it seem easy, but it's simply due to our high skill level. Pulling off the d spear re-TB seems to me, as you said, a reward for skillful gameplay.

But yeah, I don't really care anymore for these kinds of polls because the PvMers will always be the majority and they'll only ever vote for whatever benefits them, as shown by the Honor nerf. There is also not really anyone to PK anymore either, the opposing clans don't enter the wild, neither do the HCIMs, and the few PvMers that are in wild risk a ring of wealth and black d'hides.

I'd much rather see a thread on what we can do to make the Wilderness active again so the PvMers don't have to complain about getting killed by bored PKers.
I love how you talk about it being such a high skill cap to simply put a timer on as soon as a player Is teleblicked then when the timer gets close to the pm timer simply having your team mate off the opponents so they can get speared into oblivion then re tbed.... it's so simple even skinnie can do it, 90% of people just don't care enough for a kill that they re willing to go to that extent, same as the multi logging of accounts, anyone can do it but why, it ruins the fun.

Also wilderness is dead because pathing, combat and player count is so fucked, why stick around fighting the same 2-3 people, you're not going to get any better you're just going to learn how the individual fights and learn to combat that instead of actually learning....
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Mike
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Mike » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pm

Elon musky wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm
But I would also like to bring up, these abused mechanics are being abused in conjunction with this bug also:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=82419&p=729560&hilit=Skull#p728935

So in the unlucky situation that a player encounters a pking abusing the Dspear for infinite Tbs, and they decide to try and fight back, the player instantly becomes skulled do to this bug.

I don’t mean to try and shift the topic from its core to a side issue, but because they are often used in conjunction, I feel that it is necessary to atleast mention.

So we are at a point now that if a player decides to fight back, he gets skulled and risks all his items due to someone bug abusing, but if a player decided to not fight back and just try to escape, they can be unlimitedly TBed due to the other bug abuse. Now I may be biased because I am a victim of the bug abuse, but I also know that there will be some bias from those who abuse one or both the bugs.
I have seen that report when it was posted and it's something that I'm currently working to address. I'm actually quite surprised nobody really seemed to notice (or care enough to report) before. I hope to have that particular bug fixed in the next server update, but it'll take some coding to get it done.

As for the TB and D spear issue, it looks like we're still at a bit of a stalemate. It won't be easy to find a common middle ground, since changing anything will always benefit either the PK'ers or the PVM'ers. I'll leave this up some more for further input before deciding on anything.

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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Ur nans hc » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:51 pm

Mike wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pm
Elon musky wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm
But I would also like to bring up, these abused mechanics are being abused in conjunction with this bug also:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=82419&p=729560&hilit=Skull#p728935

So in the unlucky situation that a player encounters a pking abusing the Dspear for infinite Tbs, and they decide to try and fight back, the player instantly becomes skulled do to this bug.

I don’t mean to try and shift the topic from its core to a side issue, but because they are often used in conjunction, I feel that it is necessary to atleast mention.

So we are at a point now that if a player decides to fight back, he gets skulled and risks all his items due to someone bug abusing, but if a player decided to not fight back and just try to escape, they can be unlimitedly TBed due to the other bug abuse. Now I may be biased because I am a victim of the bug abuse, but I also know that there will be some bias from those who abuse one or both the bugs.
I have seen that report when it was posted and it's something that I'm currently working to address. I'm actually quite surprised nobody really seemed to notice (or care enough to report) before. I hope to have that particular bug fixed in the next server update, but it'll take some coding to get it done.

As for the TB and D spear issue, it looks like we're still at a bit of a stalemate. It won't be easy to find a common middle ground, since changing anything will always benefit either the PK'ers or the PVM'ers. I'll leave this up some more for further input before deciding on anything.
I’m speaking as a pker when I say it’s broken lol I pk pretty much daily on (will be ok). With the current in game gear these mechanics are way to much. Last night I had even died to someone from frosts before I got to mage bank due to how insane battle mage is. Constant 40’s or 20’s even on prayer, combined with a C Maul its very very hard to escape.

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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by The underdog » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:10 am

🤡

Elon musky
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Elon musky » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 am

The more I think about this topic, the easier it is to find all of the flaws.

Let’s take it back to the basics.

Why is there a teleport block timer?
-There is a teleport block timer because it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function. Otherwise a teleblock should only be able to be removed once the player leaves the wilderness.

Now that we know that the intent behind having a teleblock timer, we know that using any exploit to extend or avoid the timer should be considered bug abuse.

Is it a stretch? Well let’s look at an example:

Using Venom to avoid Glacytes. For those that are unfamiliar, you used to be able to Venom a Glacor, and simply wait for it to die from Venom, and the Glacytes would never spawn. Doing this on 10+ Glacors at a time was the fastest kill method.

So let’s pick it apart. In both situations we are using an intended mechanic (venom=dragon spear spec) in order to avoid an intended mechanic (Glacytes = Teleportation timer).

Now I would like someone to explain why one of these is bug abuse, and the other isn’t?
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Isaac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:43 pm

Elon musky wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 am
The more I think about this topic, the easier it is to find all of the flaws.

Let’s take it back to the basics.

Why is there a teleport block timer?
-There is a teleport block timer because it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function. Otherwise a teleblock should only be able to be removed once the player leaves the wilderness.

Now that we know that the intent behind having a teleblock timer, we know that using any exploit to extend or avoid the timer should be considered bug abuse.

Is it a stretch? Well let’s look at an example:

Using Venom to avoid Glacytes. For those that are unfamiliar, you used to be able to Venom a Glacor, and simply wait for it to die from Venom, and the Glacytes would never spawn. Doing this on 10+ Glacors at a time was the fastest kill method.

So let’s pick it apart. In both situations we are using an intended mechanic (venom=dragon spear spec) in order to avoid an intended mechanic (Glacytes = Teleportation timer).

Now I would like someone to explain why one of these is bug abuse, and the other isn’t?
It's time has nothing to do with its game mechanic. I disagree with your view that 'it isn't supposed to be an infinite function'. The mechanic of Teleblock is stopping someone from teleporting, that's the mechanic right there. To say it's only supposed to last 5 minutes maximum as an intended feature is wrong.

You can use this mechanic to your advantage by co-ordinating the timings so that you can re-TB someone after the first one expires. I'm sorry you don't want to hear this but that's actually quite smart gameplay, and if a clan can pull that off over and over again then kudos to them.

I'd draw a comparison with prayer flicking. The mechanic of prayers is to prevent taking damage from a certain attack style, that's the mechanic. Someone figured out a way to use this mechanic to their advantage by prayer-flicking.

Venoming Glacors is a completely different ball game. I agree that the ability to venom an NPC is a mechanic in the game yes. But then you add the fact that Glacors are supposed to be immune to venom, also it's single combat and you're technically attacking multiple NPCs at the same time etc. That's where the abuse sets in for me. It's arguable, yes. Some could argue that using venom and sitting back is actually quite a smart idea, others would argue it's lazy and affects game integrity to allow such mechanics.

**To add, I think the main reason TBing becomes an annoying game mechanic is because of the ability to virtually never splash due to the OP but cheap af gear available in-game.

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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Elon musky » Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm

Isaac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:43 pm
Elon musky wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:50 am
The more I think about this topic, the easier it is to find all of the flaws.

Let’s take it back to the basics.

Why is there a teleport block timer?
-There is a teleport block timer because it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function. Otherwise a teleblock should only be able to be removed once the player leaves the wilderness.

Now that we know that the intent behind having a teleblock timer, we know that using any exploit to extend or avoid the timer should be considered bug abuse.

Is it a stretch? Well let’s look at an example:

Using Venom to avoid Glacytes. For those that are unfamiliar, you used to be able to Venom a Glacor, and simply wait for it to die from Venom, and the Glacytes would never spawn. Doing this on 10+ Glacors at a time was the fastest kill method.

So let’s pick it apart. In both situations we are using an intended mechanic (venom=dragon spear spec) in order to avoid an intended mechanic (Glacytes = Teleportation timer).

Now I would like someone to explain why one of these is bug abuse, and the other isn’t?
It's time has nothing to do with its game mechanic. I disagree with your view that 'it isn't supposed to be an infinite function'. The mechanic of Teleblock is stopping someone from teleporting, that's the mechanic right there. To say it's only supposed to last 5 minutes maximum as an intended feature is wrong.

You can use this mechanic to your advantage by co-ordinating the timings so that you can re-TB someone after the first one expires. I'm sorry you don't want to hear this but that's actually quite smart gameplay, and if a clan can pull that off over and over again then kudos to them.

I'd draw a comparison with prayer flicking. The mechanic of prayers is to prevent taking damage from a certain attack style, that's the mechanic. Someone figured out a way to use this mechanic to their advantage by prayer-flicking.

Venoming Glacors is a completely different ball game. I agree that the ability to venom an NPC is a mechanic in the game yes. But then you add the fact that Glacors are supposed to be immune to venom, also it's single combat and you're technically attacking multiple NPCs at the same time etc. That's where the abuse sets in for me. It's arguable, yes. Some could argue that using venom and sitting back is actually quite a smart idea, others would argue it's lazy and affects game integrity to allow such mechanics.

**To add, I think the main reason TBing becomes an annoying game mechanic is because of the ability to virtually never splash due to the OP but cheap af gear available in-game.
I really think you missed the point. The ability to re-tb someone isn’t the issue. The ability to completely immobilize someone to the point they are defenseless against a TB for an infinite amount of time is the unintended feature. If the intent behind a teleportation block was to be able continuesly do it without interruption, then there wouldn’t be a timer.

If we can’t agree that ‘it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function’, then there is no point in going back and forth about the method of abuse. We just view the whole mechanic differently.
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Thearlygamer » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:26 pm

Isaac wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:43 pm
I'd draw a comparison with prayer flicking. The mechanic of prayers is to prevent taking damage from a certain attack style, that's the mechanic. Someone figured out a way to use this mechanic to their advantage by prayer-flicking.
Funny you'd mention prayer flicking since it's understood that it was not inteded to happen like that and it was an oversight from Jagex. The ONLY reason it wasn't removed is because people got used to it, but IIRC it doesn't work on here because it was seen as a bug

Anyone who thinks that TB is supposed to be an infinate thing when there's clearly a 5 minute timer is a clown 🤡
Stale fish1 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:46 pm
Didn't you quit?
Being the best player on PkHonor is hard, I just make it look easy
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Re: Teleblock & dragon spear mechanics

Post by Isaac » Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:38 pm

Elon musky wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm
I really think you missed the point. The ability to re-tb someone isn’t the issue. The ability to completely immobilize someone to the point they are defenseless against a TB for an infinite amount of time is the unintended feature. If the intent behind a teleportation block was to be able continuesly do it without interruption, then there wouldn’t be a timer.

If we can’t agree that ‘it isn’t suppose to be an infinite function’, then there is no point in going back and forth about the method of abuse. We just view the whole mechanic differently.
I think I probably just addressed point 1 tbh.

My MAIN point was that infinitely TBing someone using the spell is perfectly fine and requires skill and timing.

However, although this is possible in OSRS, it is somewhat balanced because you must deal with a lot of variables (magic accuracy, timing etc) which on PkHonor don't really factor in because of OP gear.

Then you get into the spear/freeze mechanics which quite frankly I won't address because I don't know how it works in OSRS.

All I'm certain on is that skill and timing should be rewarded and there should be no such thing as a TB cooldown.

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