Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

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Thoby
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Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Thoby » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm

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So, welcome to this Developers Blog. A lot has happened since the last blog, both the Alchemical Hydra and the Slayer Expansion were released. You might have noticed in the Slayer Expansion post the mentioned that Mike has released the pathing code to the development team, meaning we are now able to try and fix pathing- something that has been something that historically could use some improvements. However, instead of solely focusing the next update on pathing (because well, that would be quite boring, now wouldn't it?). We decided to theme the upcoming update as a PvP-update, in which we aim to make the player-versus-player scene more interesting and appealing! This would match the pathing fixes, since the problems in our pathing are most noticeable in combat.

So we are currently also working on improving Bounty Hunter, balancing our equipment, repurposing the PkHonor Point Store and adding in the Last Man Standing minigame! This all to improve the PvP-scene as a whole. Please, if you have any feedback, tips, things you notice, etc: let us know. We are no active members of our PvP-scene, so anything we change will have to come from you guys.

But before we begin, first the β€˜ol disclaimer: the content highlighted in these blogs might not end up in the game.
They are a direct reflection of what we as developers are working on, although these might not be in line with what Rapsey and Mike think is good for the game.
After all, they get to decide which features end up in the game and which will not.
This (hopefully) will not always be the case though, and we aim to develop content that is in line with their vision.





πŸ“Œ Our vision moving forward

First though, we have recently been discussing something quite important: our vision. As you might have noticed, our latest updates follow a trend of providing exciting content that actually suit PkHonor's look-and-feel. We realized that we have been too thorn between becoming an OSRS replica, spawn-like-server and becoming something original. OSRS is often seen as the holy grail of what to do, and in many cases it's a great example to follow. However, directly copying the content is not always enjoyable. Skotizo is a good example of this; following OSRS's implementation made the boss time-consuming and inaccessible to most players, leaving it as 'dead content'.

The thing we realized is that our players aren't interested in just vanilla OSRS content: they're on a RSPS for a reason. Why not prioritize our player's enjoyment? So, from now on we will be focusing on releasing content that suits PkHonor and provides an enjoyable experience, even if it's custom.

Also, the spawn-like-server issue. In PvP we have often heard suggestions surrounding spawnable equipment sets, weaponry and food. We have given this a lot of thought, brainstormed possible solutions, but we have gotten to a point in which we realize that we aren't a spawn server. It simply isn't our strength, it isn't what made us what we are today. There are plenty of servers around that provide that quick-and-easy PvP experience, and trying to also be one while maintaining the feeling of satisfaction and gratification through achievements and progression is not going to work. Instead, we want to focus on making PvP more accessible while maintaining value of items and loot. We want to make it more accessible by providing more stable ways of getting PvP equipment and supplies. However, these will not be free.



πŸ—‘ Re-imagining PvP Equipment

PvP equipment (Vesta's, Statius', Morrigan's and Zuriel's) have been around for ages. They were added to level the playing field between established veterans and outmatched newcomers. The idea behind them makes sense: items that are easily obtainable through PvP and can rival BIS equipment. However, the equipment has grown to be an overpowered set of equipment which bare no risk when using them. In most cases, the difference between risking 200m and 5b is so minor, that risking 5b is just silly. This really plateaus equipment diversity as a whole.

From an outmatched newcomers perspective this also doesn't really make sense. Yes, it grands newish players (with ~30+ hours played) the ability to match established players. However, if you don't have the PvP equipment you're definitely outmatched. A 1v1 in Rune versus Vesta's is silly. Why even bother? You'll get outhit and only get a 200m reward if you manage to win. However, what if the newcomer kills a player in Bandos equipment? Well damn, you just won yourself a few billion worth of items. That sounds more like risk = reward.

Not only that, but the equipment outclasses basically any new equipment added. That's because the PvP equipment is based on RS3, which didn't understand powercreep like we do these days. Just looking at OSRS will make you realize there will probably never be any new items added that will be more powerful than the current PvP equipment.

So, that poses the question: what to do with the equipment? Should we nerf them, or remove them entirely? (Don't worry though, they won't just vanish without returning anything new 🀫). Please let us know below! Oh and let us know why you prefer either option. We will decide according to that.



🎁 Repurposing the PkPoint Store

Since we are discussing potentially removing the PvP equipment, something new should fill the PkPoint Store. Up till now, the PkPoints were primarily meant for purchasing the PvP equipment. However, we want to expand their usage.

Our first suggestion would be to add in Ornament kits. These are kits that can be used to enhance the look of specific items. We not only want to add the ones that OSRS has, but we also want to look into adding in custom ornament kits for different items. Maybe Nex equipment or ToB equipment πŸ€”?

Our second suggestion would be to add in PvP supplies: weaponry, equipment, supplies and other gear that would make PvP more accessible. For this we want to find the sweet spot in which we don't want to stop money generation through PvM and skilling- so this will require some extensive research.

Our third suggestion would be to add in Castle Wars tickets to the shop. They would be quite expensive (15-25 points per ticket), but give an additional way of obtaining Castle Wars tickets. This would enable players from getting the Hybrid armor without being limited by waiting to play Castle Wars. Castle Wars will still remain the best way of getting Castle Wars tickets. Overall this might even boost Castle Wars activity, since more players would get the Hybrid armor and will still have to charge it within the minigame.

Our last suggestion would be to add in cannon upgrades. We are still discussing this one, but we are imagining upgrading the damage and capacity of Dwarf multi cannon. What would you think of that?

If you have some additional suggestions for repurposing the PkPoint store; we are open to suggestions! Try thinking out of the box πŸ˜‰!



☠ Improving Bounty Hunter

We recognize that the Bounty Hunter minigame can use some improvements. Firstly, I personally want to add a better Bounty Hunter interface, with some more additional information right on the player's HUD.

Secondly, the store can use a revamp. Most points are spend on Imbue scrolls and the occasional Ring of Vigour. The new proposed items are:
  • Ring of Vigour (i) - Saving 20% of special attack usage. Could become an interesting tool, and will also make the regular Ring of Vigour more useful and sought after (would be upgradeable using the existing imbue scroll).
  • Imbued god capes - Powerful magic capes that provide additional +2% magic damage bonus, and have a whopping +15 magic attack bonus.
  • Wrath runes - And with this, ofcourse, the Surge spells. We might also add these to PvM or Runecrafting, but because of their usefulness within PvP they might only be obtainable through the BH and LMS store.
  • Saradomin's Tear - Used to upgrade Saradomin sword into a Saradomin's blessed sword; providing higher bonusses.
These are not final, but are our suggestions. Feel free to let us know if you have some more suggestions!



πŸ›‘ Last Man Standing

Last but not least; Last Man Standing. A battle-royal minigame in which players face off against each other with preselected equipment. For this we will mostly stay true to OSRS's implementation- because it was a huge success after its (second) release. Since we are still heavily working on this, I cannot really say too much about this. But hey, good things are coming πŸ˜‰.



πŸƒβ€β™‚οΈ Pathing

So, pathing. The big problem with pathing is that it's A LOT of work to puzzle what which function does. To establish high performance (hundreds of players navigating through our world) the code is highly optimized. To establish this high level of optimization, you often have to sacrifice readability and understandability of the code. So we have mostly been testing and debugging exactly what each function does, what happens in what function, and after we have properly documented the code- we will move to looking into the issues.

The main issue that occurred since the Hydra update has been fixed, which stops following Npcs to track you weirdly. However, when we get to a good stage with developing LMS and improving BH, we will open up the test servers to allow players to directly show us problems and fix them on the spot.

We aim to completely copy OSRS' pathfinding, so we will continue tweaking until it's perfect.



πŸ“Ί YouTuber Rank!

We have been discussing the possibility of having a dedicated YouTuber rank ingame, for those players that produce video content on a regular basis. With this we want to show recognition towards these players. We are still working hard on creating this rank and establishing exactly what we can offer our dedicated content creators! More news on this soon.





So, that's all for today. Not a lot of content to show off this time around, but like I mentioned: pathing isn't too exciting. A lot of things to discuss though; so we really do want to hear your feedback!
Feel free to send me a message, I'd gladly have a chat!
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Empty pot
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Empty pot » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:59 pm

this is a pogchamp!
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Monys
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Monys » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm

Removing the PVP gear would be good but it also just leads to older and richer players to use virt/pernix/torva in the wild (expensive) but would still outmatch new players in ahrims/lower tiered gear. Just something to ponder as well.

Overall I still really enjoy these development blogs. I cannot wait to help test out more things.

Keep up the FANTASTIC WORK.
::vote

Its flat
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Its flat » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Great news! I'm excited!

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Brant
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Brant » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:26 pm

This is good news for the Abyssal Sire who should be a lot better when pathing gets fixed. Can't wait for that!
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Funny, I actually dont like dogs.

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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Troll n roll » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:35 pm

πŸ—‘ Re-imagining PvP Equipment

PvP equipment: Get rid of it all. Exact reason you stated: it's too OP for the cost/ reward. Side note, with PvP gear removal you can reformat the magic spells (ie get rid of miasmic spells).

🎁 Repurposing the PkPoint Store

Ornament kits: Yeah sure. But just keep them as the ones in OSRS.

PvP supplies: All of the reasons stated above. Basic PvP gear should not cost new players nearly as much as it does rn.

Castle Wars: I would only like to see thse be added if PkPoints were completely reworked. Currently you get more PkPoints from other sources besides pking (ie Wildywyrm, skilling, etc.). For this to be an actual "Pking reqeard", you would have to have PkPoints only come from PvP activity.

Cannon: no opinion.

☠ Improving Bounty Hunter

HUD: Yes, long needed improvement. Current display system looks bad.

Revamps:
  • Ring of Vigour (i): sure, no one really uses current ring.
  • Imbued god capes: Yes, reward people who actually cape switch rather than use max/ comp capes.
  • Wrath runes : Yes!
  • Saradomin's Tear: No opinion
πŸ›‘ Last Man Standing

I would like to see this, but idk how active this game would be.


πŸ“Ί YouTuber Rank!

Everyone always arguing over this. I'd like to see a proposed criteria before I can comment.
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Adam the lion wrote:If you are making super pots for profit on an rsps, you really need to re-evaluate your life.

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Iron adam
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Iron adam » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:02 pm

Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
First though, we have recently been discussing something quite important: our vision. As you might have noticed, our latest updates follow a trend of providing exciting content that actually suit PkHonor's look-and-feel. We realized that we have been too thorn between becoming an OSRS replica, spawn-like-server and becoming something original. OSRS is often seen as the holy grail of what to do, and in many cases it's a great example to follow. However, directly copying the content is not always enjoyable. Skotizo is a good example of this; following OSRS's implementation made the boss time-consuming and inaccessible to most players, leaving it as 'dead content'.
You have done an excellent job of this so far. Evil chicken, brimstone chest, slayer perks. All custom stuff based on osrs. Keep following that path and we will be fine.
Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
We want to make it more accessible by providing more stable ways of getting PvP equipment and supplies. However, these will not be free.
First few important steps. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=77252
Amulet of glorys in ::shops for 10m. This makes them more accessible but doesnt hurt profit from skilling (they sell for 5m). Noted items in ::shops.
Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
So, that poses the question: what to do with the equipment? Should we nerf them, or remove them entirely?
Nerf them and keep them in game. A large portion of our player base played runescape in the 2009 era. I was never a fan of this time, but it is highly nostalgic for a large group of people. pvp gear is familiar to them and they like to see it. There is no sense in removing 4 item sets when they can easily fit into the game. The key is to make them niche. Make statius a high defence set and vestas a high attack set. Keep the gear viable without being BiS in every single category.
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=78382
Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
Repurposing the PkPoint Store
I dont think we should change anything right now. Pkpoints have a lot of different uses. Maybe adding some basic pking gear like whips, fury, ddef, etc. But other than that dont change anything.
Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
Ring of Vigour (i) - Saving 20% of special attack usage. Could become an interesting tool, and will also make the regular Ring of Vigour more useful and sought after (would be upgradeable using the existing imbue scroll).
Imbued god capes - Powerful magic capes that provide additional +2% magic damage bonus, and have a whopping +15 magic attack bonus.
Wrath runes - And with this, ofcourse, the Surge spells. We might also add these to PvM or Runecrafting, but because of their usefulness within PvP they might only be obtainable through the BH and LMS store.
Saradomin's Tear - Used to upgrade Saradomin sword into a Saradomin's blessed sword; providing higher bonusses.
These are all great ideas. There needs to me more items like this that are exclusive to BH. It provides more of an incentive to participate. If we add surge spells, make sure that our magic damage calculations are fixed. Right now our magic damage is based on magic level. Higher magic level = higher hit. This should only be true for trident weapons. All other spells should not be affected by magic level, only gear bonuses.
Thoby wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:58 pm
Last but not least; Last Man Standing. A battle-royal minigame in which players face off against each other with preselected equipment. For this we will mostly stay true to OSRS's implementation- because it was a huge success after its (second) release. Since we are still heavily working on this, I cannot really say too much about this. But hey, good things are coming .
I dont have much faith that this will be played much. But I guess it cant hurt. I think a cool idea would be to swap Castle Wars tickets with minigame tickets that can be earned at several different minigames. (Cw, LMS, fight pits, etc)


fix pathing
I fucking love Thoby..

#OSRSPathing2020

Will be ok2
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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Will be ok2 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:14 pm

Maybe rather then offer cwar tickets for PKP, offer a bond to grant you 2x tickets for 1 game of cwars or a 1hour time.

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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Thierryu1 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:49 pm

Will we see the tome with the Wrath runes? Nothing has been mentioned about the tome of fire.
And if so, will it be a Bh only thing or also able to be traded?
Not sure if I like the cosmetics for ToB and Nex gear though.
And I don't think the dwarf cannon needs a buff. It's an extra and nothing more.
Looking forward to the rest of this update!

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Re: Pathing & PvP - Development Blog - February 26th 2020

Post by Thierryu1 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:52 pm

Monys wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
Removing the PVP gear would be good but it also just leads to older and richer players to use virt/pernix/torva in the wild (expensive) but would still outmatch new players in ahrims/lower tiered gear. Just something to ponder as well.

Overall I still really enjoy these development blogs. I cannot wait to help test out more things.

Keep up the FANTASTIC WORK.
But then you get to the point they are trying to make in this blog. High Risk = High reward. You can kill people most of the time until you get that 1% time you lose 40-50b at once to a noob.

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