Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 2019

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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by James » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:39 pm

Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.

Regarding PvP content

I'd like to preface this with a suggestion on changing how the current PkP system works. The current PkP Points and Shop should be renamed to Honor Points and Honor Shop, nothing else will change with this content. A new Player Killing Points (PkP) system should be implemented which are gained solely from killing players along with a PkP Shop which contains "untradeables", unique content and high end PvM supplies. Some examples:

Fire Cape
Fighter Torso
Rune/Dragon Defender
Fighter Hat
Barrows Gloves
Void
Trimming Kits (whips, defenders, scims, godswords etc..)
Bounty Hunter Hats (These can be obtained incrementally much like beginner, apprentice and master wands)
Super Combats
Rocktails
Karambwans
Anti-Venom
Rune Pouch

What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference. The cost of items in the PkP store and how many PkP's are obtained from a kill needs to be balanced well, I believe something along the lines of 20 PkP's per kill and a pricing of 100-200 PkP's depending on the item is reasonable.

Regarding the "untradeables" in this store mainly the Fighter Torso, Rune/Dragon Defender, Fire Cape and Barrows Gloves need to be dropped on death for the winner of the fight, these items should also be sellable to the PkP store so you have an option to utilise them for yourself or invest them into your PkP's to buy more expensive stuff, what this does is creates a small player killing economy which motivates newer players to obtain new pieces of equipment to become stronger within a reasonable amount of time but also motivates people to risk more to obtain more, essentially creating a self feeding cycle where both the small fish and big fish have something to gain.
The importance and reasoning for all this is new player retention which is done by rewarding the small fish frequently; the pricing of the equipment in the PkP store needs to be balanced as not to over saturate the players but give them enough value that losing them is significant but are re-obtainable within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate this means changing a core aspect of the game but quite honestly, trading rights and having these items so expensive and unobtainable from the beginning is terrible which if completely overhauled barely even scratches the surface of the current game, the heavily PvM structured economy and gameplay will still be fully capable of striving the only difference is with taking what I've suggested I'm fair confident you could have a healthy Pking community in the game.

P.S. What I've suggested isn't a flawless product, it's an example of what I'd like to see and what I believe would be successful.
Completely agree! Definitely didn’t quote this solely to make people have to scroll even more!
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Iron adam » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:41 pm

James wrote:
Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.

Regarding PvP content

I'd like to preface this with a suggestion on changing how the current PkP system works. The current PkP Points and Shop should be renamed to Honor Points and Honor Shop, nothing else will change with this content. A new Player Killing Points (PkP) system should be implemented which are gained solely from killing players along with a PkP Shop which contains "untradeables", unique content and high end PvM supplies. Some examples:

Fire Cape
Fighter Torso
Rune/Dragon Defender
Fighter Hat
Barrows Gloves
Void
Trimming Kits (whips, defenders, scims, godswords etc..)
Bounty Hunter Hats (These can be obtained incrementally much like beginner, apprentice and master wands)
Super Combats
Rocktails
Karambwans
Anti-Venom
Rune Pouch

What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference. The cost of items in the PkP store and how many PkP's are obtained from a kill needs to be balanced well, I believe something along the lines of 20 PkP's per kill and a pricing of 100-200 PkP's depending on the item is reasonable.

Regarding the "untradeables" in this store mainly the Fighter Torso, Rune/Dragon Defender, Fire Cape and Barrows Gloves need to be dropped on death for the winner of the fight, these items should also be sellable to the PkP store so you have an option to utilise them for yourself or invest them into your PkP's to buy more expensive stuff, what this does is creates a small player killing economy which motivates newer players to obtain new pieces of equipment to become stronger within a reasonable amount of time but also motivates people to risk more to obtain more, essentially creating a self feeding cycle where both the small fish and big fish have something to gain.
The importance and reasoning for all this is new player retention which is done by rewarding the small fish frequently; the pricing of the equipment in the PkP store needs to be balanced as not to over saturate the players but give them enough value that losing them is significant but are re-obtainable within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate this means changing a core aspect of the game but quite honestly, trading rights and having these items so expensive and unobtainable from the beginning is terrible which if completely overhauled barely even scratches the surface of the current game, the heavily PvM structured economy and gameplay will still be fully capable of striving the only difference is with taking what I've suggested I'm fair confident you could have a healthy Pking community in the game.

P.S. What I've suggested isn't a flawless product, it's an example of what I'd like to see and what I believe would be successful.
Completely agree! Definitely didn’t quote this solely to make people have to scroll even more!
Not sure I agree with all of this...

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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by James » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Adamthalion wrote:
James wrote:
Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.

Regarding PvP content

I'd like to preface this with a suggestion on changing how the current PkP system works. The current PkP Points and Shop should be renamed to Honor Points and Honor Shop, nothing else will change with this content. A new Player Killing Points (PkP) system should be implemented which are gained solely from killing players along with a PkP Shop which contains "untradeables", unique content and high end PvM supplies. Some examples:

Fire Cape
Fighter Torso
Rune/Dragon Defender
Fighter Hat
Barrows Gloves
Void
Trimming Kits (whips, defenders, scims, godswords etc..)
Bounty Hunter Hats (These can be obtained incrementally much like beginner, apprentice and master wands)
Super Combats
Rocktails
Karambwans
Anti-Venom
Rune Pouch

What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference. The cost of items in the PkP store and how many PkP's are obtained from a kill needs to be balanced well, I believe something along the lines of 20 PkP's per kill and a pricing of 100-200 PkP's depending on the item is reasonable.

Regarding the "untradeables" in this store mainly the Fighter Torso, Rune/Dragon Defender, Fire Cape and Barrows Gloves need to be dropped on death for the winner of the fight, these items should also be sellable to the PkP store so you have an option to utilise them for yourself or invest them into your PkP's to buy more expensive stuff, what this does is creates a small player killing economy which motivates newer players to obtain new pieces of equipment to become stronger within a reasonable amount of time but also motivates people to risk more to obtain more, essentially creating a self feeding cycle where both the small fish and big fish have something to gain.
The importance and reasoning for all this is new player retention which is done by rewarding the small fish frequently; the pricing of the equipment in the PkP store needs to be balanced as not to over saturate the players but give them enough value that losing them is significant but are re-obtainable within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate this means changing a core aspect of the game but quite honestly, trading rights and having these items so expensive and unobtainable from the beginning is terrible which if completely overhauled barely even scratches the surface of the current game, the heavily PvM structured economy and gameplay will still be fully capable of striving the only difference is with taking what I've suggested I'm fair confident you could have a healthy Pking community in the game.

P.S. What I've suggested isn't a flawless product, it's an example of what I'd like to see and what I believe would be successful.
Completely agree! Definitely didn’t quote this solely to make people have to scroll even more!
Not sure I agree with all of this...
I would be interested in hearing more about why you disagree with certain aspects of Ross' proposal!
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Iron adam » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:14 pm

Adamthalion wrote:
James wrote:
Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.

Regarding PvP content

I'd like to preface this with a suggestion on changing how the current PkP system works. The current PkP Points and Shop should be renamed to Honor Points and Honor Shop, nothing else will change with this content. A new Player Killing Points (PkP) system should be implemented which are gained solely from killing players along with a PkP Shop which contains "untradeables", unique content and high end PvM supplies. Some examples:

Fire Cape
Fighter Torso
Rune/Dragon Defender
Fighter Hat
Barrows Gloves
Void
Trimming Kits (whips, defenders, scims, godswords etc..)
Bounty Hunter Hats (These can be obtained incrementally much like beginner, apprentice and master wands)
Super Combats
Rocktails
Karambwans
Anti-Venom
Rune Pouch

What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference. The cost of items in the PkP store and how many PkP's are obtained from a kill needs to be balanced well, I believe something along the lines of 20 PkP's per kill and a pricing of 100-200 PkP's depending on the item is reasonable.

Regarding the "untradeables" in this store mainly the Fighter Torso, Rune/Dragon Defender, Fire Cape and Barrows Gloves need to be dropped on death for the winner of the fight, these items should also be sellable to the PkP store so you have an option to utilise them for yourself or invest them into your PkP's to buy more expensive stuff, what this does is creates a small player killing economy which motivates newer players to obtain new pieces of equipment to become stronger within a reasonable amount of time but also motivates people to risk more to obtain more, essentially creating a self feeding cycle where both the small fish and big fish have something to gain.
The importance and reasoning for all this is new player retention which is done by rewarding the small fish frequently; the pricing of the equipment in the PkP store needs to be balanced as not to over saturate the players but give them enough value that losing them is significant but are re-obtainable within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate this means changing a core aspect of the game but quite honestly, trading rights and having these items so expensive and unobtainable from the beginning is terrible which if completely overhauled barely even scratches the surface of the current game, the heavily PvM structured economy and gameplay will still be fully capable of striving the only difference is with taking what I've suggested I'm fair confident you could have a healthy Pking community in the game.

P.S. What I've suggested isn't a flawless product, it's an example of what I'd like to see and what I believe would be successful.
Completely agree! Definitely didn’t quote this solely to make people have to scroll even more!
Not sure I agree with all of this...
I would be interested in hearing more about why you disagree with certain aspects of Ross' proposal![/quote]
Well the new point system sounds confusing

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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Slap a ho » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:11 pm

@Ross

Leave barrows gloves alone. Took forever to get them moved from pop store into the shop. They’re a basic gear requirement.
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Ross » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:46 pm

Adamthalion wrote:Well the new point system sounds confusing
It's quite simple, add a new point system of which the points are only obtainable from killing another player.

You then access a shop which sells pking related gear for these points, meaning there's a reward system for actively killing another player which allows you to upgrade your gear. Not only this but you could kill another player risking this gear and take their torso/fire cape and use it for yourself or sell it back to the store for a much reduced price.

Everything else such as Barrows, D Claws, AGS, DFS, Whips etc.. are still obtained and sold via the traditional methods.

The aim of the points is to encourage pking to get better gear to pk without needing to spend 20 hours doing pvm and other content.
Slap a ho wrote:Leave barrows gloves alone. Took forever to get them moved from pop store into the shop. They’re a basic gear requirement.
Honestly, I considered this but since Barrows Gloves are BIS gear I'd rather they be added to the list of things you would risk when pking or potentially obtain from pking someone.
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Thoby » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:05 pm

Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.
I agree that we should look into rebalancing equipment. Blatantly removing them will not really be a suitable solution, but something needs to be done.
I think this is a subject to be discussed (and polled) in the upcoming period while work is done for the ToB. Changes should be made before its release though, I absolutely agree.

One thing to keep in mind is that we're a RSPS. Our playerbase doesn't really like absolute challenge, because they came here to play endgame content without too much of a hastle. Some of the Nex / Customs could make it so our players would more easily be able to enjoy the top-tier OSRS content. Maybe some restrictions/settings should be made, that provide a handicap on the droprate when specific items are taken into the Theatre.

Like I said, this will be discussed and polled. Community input is vital.
Ross wrote:A lot of stuff on PvP Content, which I will not quote because this page is starting to reach a gigabyte in size.
Quite a detailed idea. I agree that PkPoints aren't really 'Pk'Points, and some gear should be easier to obtain from the get go.

However, to me it feels a lot like what the Bounty Hunter store offers. The main difference would be that these opponents wouldn't be killed as targets, but just at random. If that's basically what you're aiming at, why not grand a decreased amount of Bounty Hunter points when killing players, alongside the regular PkPoints? Players that would do BH would get rewarded more richly, while the players that would kill untargeted players would also gain points to spend these in a shop. The BH shop could be modified to offer the items you named.

Completely ripping out a system that has worked and existed for years isn't the way to go. I agree that change is good, and major change is required to get PkHonor back to its former glory, but I don't think PkPoints is one of those things.

However, that's my personal opinion, which isn't perfect. Honestly, if you are really sure about this idea and think this would be for the greater good: feel free to post a suggestion. If it gets enough support from the community, it shall be taken into serious consideration.
Ross wrote:What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference.
Honestly I like that the gloves are buyable. They're considered 'basic equipment', so why not offer them from the get-go?

Anyhow, that's just my take on it. Thank you very much for your lenghty and detailed suggestion, Ross. I really do appreciate it!
Feel free to send me a message, I'd gladly have a chat!
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by James » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:15 pm

Adamthalion wrote:
James wrote:
Ross wrote:Regarding Tob, CoX

This content looks great but there needs to be some changes made to the current state of PvM on PkHonor otherwise this content is going to fall flat on its face. If the content is balanced around the current end game meta then newer players who are coming into the game aren't going to be interested as the time investment will be far too great, if we balance the content around mid-game then the content is going to get destroyed by high end PvM meta and the economy will be saturated with the uniques from both pieces of content.

As a community of players making suggestions and developers we're definitely guilty of wanting more and more and implementing crazy levels of power creep with the likes of Curses, Custom Whips, Custom Comps, Nex Armours, Morphs etc.. I'm not sure as a game and business how you're going to deal with this situation, personally I'd just remove the content and focus on balancing PvM but obviously I don't own the business so I can see how that may have conflict of interest. But if you're serious about improving the quality of the game and moving it into a direction that the current osrs/rsps desires then some serious and bold changes are going to have to be made.

Regarding PvP content

I'd like to preface this with a suggestion on changing how the current PkP system works. The current PkP Points and Shop should be renamed to Honor Points and Honor Shop, nothing else will change with this content. A new Player Killing Points (PkP) system should be implemented which are gained solely from killing players along with a PkP Shop which contains "untradeables", unique content and high end PvM supplies. Some examples:

Fire Cape
Fighter Torso
Rune/Dragon Defender
Fighter Hat
Barrows Gloves
Void
Trimming Kits (whips, defenders, scims, godswords etc..)
Bounty Hunter Hats (These can be obtained incrementally much like beginner, apprentice and master wands)
Super Combats
Rocktails
Karambwans
Anti-Venom
Rune Pouch

What has been presented looks promising besides the barrows gloves, they should be removed but so long as the shops prices are reasonable and allow a person to buy 2-3 sets of gear without interference. The cost of items in the PkP store and how many PkP's are obtained from a kill needs to be balanced well, I believe something along the lines of 20 PkP's per kill and a pricing of 100-200 PkP's depending on the item is reasonable.

Regarding the "untradeables" in this store mainly the Fighter Torso, Rune/Dragon Defender, Fire Cape and Barrows Gloves need to be dropped on death for the winner of the fight, these items should also be sellable to the PkP store so you have an option to utilise them for yourself or invest them into your PkP's to buy more expensive stuff, what this does is creates a small player killing economy which motivates newer players to obtain new pieces of equipment to become stronger within a reasonable amount of time but also motivates people to risk more to obtain more, essentially creating a self feeding cycle where both the small fish and big fish have something to gain.
The importance and reasoning for all this is new player retention which is done by rewarding the small fish frequently; the pricing of the equipment in the PkP store needs to be balanced as not to over saturate the players but give them enough value that losing them is significant but are re-obtainable within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate this means changing a core aspect of the game but quite honestly, trading rights and having these items so expensive and unobtainable from the beginning is terrible which if completely overhauled barely even scratches the surface of the current game, the heavily PvM structured economy and gameplay will still be fully capable of striving the only difference is with taking what I've suggested I'm fair confident you could have a healthy Pking community in the game.

P.S. What I've suggested isn't a flawless product, it's an example of what I'd like to see and what I believe would be successful.
Completely agree! Definitely didn’t quote this solely to make people have to scroll even more!
Not sure I agree with all of this...
I would be interested in hearing more about why you disagree with certain aspects of Ross' proposal![/quote]
Well the new point system sounds confusing[/quote]
oh ok ! i actually kind of agree !
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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Freeze em » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:04 pm

So does ToB cost 200m to enter always or only after a failed attempt?

Great to hear about all the stuff in the works though! :thumbsup:

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Re: Catacombs, ToB & Pking - Developers Blog - June 20th 201

Post by Monys » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Really glad to see a Dev Blog. Keep up the good work y'all :D
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