Zulrah in open beta!

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Admin adam » Tue May 16, 2017 4:14 pm

Rapsey wrote:
Adamthalion wrote:I would prefer leaving it exactly the same as OSRS for now. Let people test it in pking and pvming. Then if changes are needed, make them.

You sure about that? More often than not if we introduce something one way and then try to change it afterwards people go "nonono, this is what we're used to now", even if it's a beneficial change. Saves a lot of grief and frustration if you can avoid upsetting people like that.

People are going to bitch regardless. Example: the recent ironman wildy update, degradable nex gear. These were updates that needed to happen, and the majority of the community knew and supported it. Of course there was that 5% of people that couldn't see past how the updates hurt them. I don't think we should cater to that small portion of self centered people.
But sure, put it to a vote to see what the community wants. I want it the same as osrs, but idk if the community would agree.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Tk phat » Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 pm

nice jad phase just like 07 spot on lads
when nasus tps

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Rapsey » Tue May 16, 2017 4:48 pm

Adamthalion wrote:People are going to bitch regardless. Example: the recent ironman wildy update, degradable nex gear. These were updates that needed to happen, and the majority of the community knew and supported it. Of course there was that 5% of people that couldn't see past how the updates hurt them. I don't think we should cater to that small portion of self centered people.
But sure, put it to a vote to see what the community wants. I want it the same as osrs, but idk if the community would agree.

I'm just saying, if you were to run that poll now and then again after a few weeks or months you would see very different results. People quickly become attached to the way things are and it makes them averse to any kind of change. For some people it becomes impossible to even entertain the notion of things working differently but for most the effect is way more subtle. I'm not talking about some 5% minority here, this affects each and every one of us whether we realize it or not. Not saying this is a reason not to try anything, just that we should be aware of it. The decision to try A for a while significantly reduces the odds that we will ever get to try B. Unless A turns out to be terrible, people will just get used to it and if anyone suggests trying B later on it'll just be "nah it's fine the way it is". They'll never be as open to trying it as they are now.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Admin adam » Tue May 16, 2017 5:28 pm

Rapsey wrote:I'm just saying, if you were to run that poll now and then again after a few weeks or months you would see very different results. People quickly become attached to the way things are and it makes them averse to any kind of change. For some people it becomes impossible to even entertain the notion of things working differently but for most the effect is way more subtle. I'm not talking about some 5% minority here, this affects each and every one of us whether we realize it or not. Not saying this is a reason not to try anything, just that we should be aware of it. The decision to try A for a while significantly reduces the odds that we will ever get to try B. Unless A turns out to be terrible, people will just get used to it and if anyone suggests trying B later on it'll just be "nah it's fine the way it is". They'll never be as open to trying it as they are now.

Yes I agree. I was talking more about updates to fix broken/overpowered mechanics. I think the question is: Is venom broken as it exists on osrs? I don't think it is. However, with all of the power creep that we have compared to osrs, Venom might be op on pkh. I am just of the general opinion that oldschool content should be implemented exactly the same as OSRS. Someone coming from OSRS is less likely to stay when bosses like mole, tsd, and venenatis don't function in the same way. Should we leave these mechanics as we have them and risk alienating new players, or fix them and temporarily upset a small percentage of pkh players. I think changing the way venom works is just going to add to the list of things that make PkH combat different from OSRS. And if we want to move towards the OSRS style, it should be implemented as such.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Mike » Tue May 16, 2017 6:25 pm

Adamthalion wrote:Yes I agree. I was talking more about updates to fix broken/overpowered mechanics. I think the question is: Is venom broken as it exists on osrs? I don't think it is. However, with all of the power creep that we have compared to osrs, Venom might be op on pkh. I am just of the general opinion that oldschool content should be implemented exactly the same as OSRS. Someone coming from OSRS is less likely to stay when bosses like mole, tsd, and venenatis don't function in the same way. Should we leave these mechanics as we have them and risk alienating new players, or fix them and temporarily upset a small percentage of pkh players. I think changing the way venom works is just going to add to the list of things that make PkH combat different from OSRS. And if we want to move towards the OSRS style, it should be implemented as such.


The question of "do we do it our own custom way or do we do it exactly as Jagex did it" is a never-ending one, for basically any feature we implement or change we make. Most of the time, we try to be as accurate as OSRS (or RS, where non-OSRS items/NPC's are concerned), while having our own little additions and features whenever possible. Venom is quite a special combat mechanic and either way we can't be sure of what the result would be.

I do see one good reason to keep it the way I've implemented it now: preventing players from hitting a boss (one of the few that isn't immune to venom) just a couple of times and then going AFK in a safe corner somewhere, waiting for its inevitable death.
On the other hand, that is a rather inefficient way of killing NPC's.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Admin adam » Tue May 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Mike wrote:
Adamthalion wrote:Yes I agree. I was talking more about updates to fix broken/overpowered mechanics. I think the question is: Is venom broken as it exists on osrs? I don't think it is. However, with all of the power creep that we have compared to osrs, Venom might be op on pkh. I am just of the general opinion that oldschool content should be implemented exactly the same as OSRS. Someone coming from OSRS is less likely to stay when bosses like mole, tsd, and venenatis don't function in the same way. Should we leave these mechanics as we have them and risk alienating new players, or fix them and temporarily upset a small percentage of pkh players. I think changing the way venom works is just going to add to the list of things that make PkH combat different from OSRS. And if we want to move towards the OSRS style, it should be implemented as such.


The question of "do we do it our own custom way or do we do it exactly as Jagex did it" is a never-ending one, for basically any feature we implement or change we make. Most of the time, we try to be as accurate as OSRS (or RS, where non-OSRS items/NPC's are concerned), while having our own little additions and features whenever possible. Venom is quite a special combat mechanic and either way we can't be sure of what the result would be.

I do see one good reason to keep it the way I've implemented it now: preventing players from hitting a boss (one of the few that isn't immune to venom) just a couple of times and then going AFK in a safe corner somewhere, waiting for its inevitable death.
On the other hand, that is a rather inefficient way of killing NPC's.

I don't see that as a huge issue. As you mentioned, it would be much faster to just kill a boss normally. The only issue would be with pking, but it will be easy enough to bring an antivenom+. So I am really not seeing any positives to changing it from the way it is in OSRS. I think setting up a poll would be a good idea. Then we can see any other perspectives. Maybe someone else can think of an issue with either mechanic.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Mike » Tue May 16, 2017 6:57 pm

Adamthalion wrote:I don't see that as a huge issue. As you mentioned, it would be much faster to just kill a boss normally. The only issue would be with pking, but it will be easy enough to bring an antivenom+. So I am really not seeing any positives to changing it from the way it is in OSRS. I think setting up a poll would be a good idea. Then we can see any other perspectives. Maybe someone else can think of an issue with either mechanic.


Agreed. We'll let the community decide on the mechanic of venom for now. We'll re-evaluate it later and see if there are any (valid) complaints that need to be addressed.

For a continuation of the Zulrah testing, please see my latest news post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=65973
For a poll on venom, see viewtopic.php?f=93&t=65974

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