Zulrah in open beta!

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Azu rite » Mon May 15, 2017 6:52 pm

Rapsey wrote:
Babe wrote:Why make it mimic OSRS? I have never had the opportunity to kill Zulrah but I'm sure most of pkh haven't killed it either. so idk the goods and bads of it but I think if there is a problem in the OSRS then might as well fix it here.

Because it can be very off-putting for people to try an RSPS and find that their PvP/PvM skills from RS don't transfer here because of differences like that. Sometimes it's also a balancing factor. Case in point: a boss like Zulrah isn't difficult because of its combat strength but due to how little time you have to react to what it does. Small details like these can make a huge difference and you can't compensate for it by nerfing or buffing the combat strength of the boss. (OS)RS balanced it around these timings so unless we want to make more custom changes we should probably do the same.

Also... I could be wrong about this but I don't think there is an RSPS that has Zulrah working perfectly. If we could have that it would be a major selling point.

Then why are we changing one of the key components in venom?
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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Rapsey » Mon May 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Azu rite wrote:Then why are we changing one of the key components in venom?

I don't know what exactly you're talking about but I'm guessing because a lot of people complain about it on OSRS? That's pretty much our only reason for deviating from OSRS. Only change the things people actually want to see changed.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Azu rite » Mon May 15, 2017 7:19 pm

Yeah but if you're going to advertise that pkhonor has a perfect zulrah then it would make sense not to change it...
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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Andres » Mon May 15, 2017 7:56 pm

Azu rite wrote:Yeah but if you're going to advertise that pkhonor has a perfect zulrah then it would make sense not to change it...


Perfect sometimes means Improved.
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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Mike » Mon May 15, 2017 8:09 pm

It looks like the 'double Zulrah room' bug had a very simple cause: people accidentally double-clicking the boat (thanks to Dylan for coming up with that idea).

So anyway, I fixed that. I also applied a fix to prevent Zulrah from dying at the same time it submerges (so you'll always get the drops). At the same time, I also found the cause of how Ironman mode players can cause multiple NPC's to spawn inside a GodWars Dungeon boss room (the fix will be applied on the live server along with Zulrah's release).

Dylan & I are currently implementing all the toxic items (that can be charged using zulrah's scales) and doing some more minor bugfixes.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Azu rite » Mon May 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Andres wrote:
Azu rite wrote:Yeah but if you're going to advertise that pkhonor has a perfect zulrah then it would make sense not to change it...


Perfect sometimes means Improved.

Just because you have an ideal about something doesn't mean that it's perfect...


You think a new player who has experience with zulrah isn't going to see that it's different and ask why it was done that way? What are you going to say? Ate you going to be an arrogant little shit and say "oh we changed it because we think it's better"...
We already have things that can poison you, venom was added to add a new game mechanic, something we haven't seen beforehand, however have some experience with (poison, and disease). The venom mechanics makes sense too, snakes aren't poisonous, they bite you and inject their venom, thus new mechanic, and the longer you go without getting it treated (antivenom) the more damage it does (increasing the damage you take by 2 until capped at 20).
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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Mike » Mon May 15, 2017 9:11 pm

Azu rite wrote:You think a new player who has experience with zulrah isn't going to see that it's different and ask why it was done that way? What are you going to say? Ate you going to be an arrogant little shit and say "oh we changed it because we think it's better"...
We already have things that can poison you, venom was added to add a new game mechanic, something we haven't seen beforehand, however have some experience with (poison, and disease). The venom mechanics makes sense too, snakes aren't poisonous, they bite you and inject their venom, thus new mechanic, and the longer you go without getting it treated (antivenom) the more damage it does (increasing the damage you take by 2 until capped at 20).


That is actually also how it works on PkHonor. The venom damage starts at 6 and goes up by 2 every 18 seconds, capped at 20 (exactly the same way as in OSRS). I assume that in OSRS, when left untreated, you inevitably die from the venom effect, as it keeps damaging you for 20, 20, 20 etc.
Firstly, for someone to be envenomed long enough for it to reach 20 damage, that's quite long. Also, you can venom someone again while you're actively engaged in combat with them (which as far as I'm concerned, introduces a really small yet interesting combat mechanic). All we did was make a small change to what happens once that 20 damage cap is reached.
In any case, I can't see why anyone would dislike this minor change to venom in PkHonor - aside from the "weh weh weh it's not 100% like OSRS". If anyone sees a really solid reason to make venom keep on doing 20 damage forever, let them bring it forward and we'll make sure to evaluate it.

In any case, as far as Zulrah is concerned, I am going to make the necessary changes to the calculation of defense & prayer roll timings, so the behaviour does mimic exactly that of OSRS (not just for Zulrah, but for all bosses & PvP). Simply because people are used to it. I do expect some backlash from some big changes, but they'll be for the better since people might at last say "PkH's combat mechanics are close to those of OSRS"


..someday.

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Troll n roll » Mon May 15, 2017 9:13 pm

I was killing Zulrah as you were reseting the servers. This caused the Zulrah to constantly spawn with the amount of hp left before the reset:
https://streamable.com/xvyz1
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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Mike » Mon May 15, 2017 9:21 pm

Color x wrote:I was killing Zulrah as you were reseting the servers. This caused the Zulrah to constantly spawn with the amount of hp left before the reset:
https://streamable.com/xvyz1


No, I actually just temporarily lowered its hitpoints to 50 to allow for easier testing :D

But thank you for your contributions ;)


By the way, can someone show me from which spots near the pillars you should be able to attack which Zulrah? Since someone said there are a couple of spots near the pillars from which you *should* be able to hit certain positions of Zulrah (on OSRS), but you can't on PkHonor. If I know which spots those are, I can fix those (and probably apply a more general fix for all NPC's for this sort of "not being able to attack an NPC behind certain objects" bugs)

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Re: Zulrah in open beta!

Postby Azu rite » Mon May 15, 2017 9:22 pm

Mike wrote:
Azu rite wrote:You think a new player who has experience with zulrah isn't going to see that it's different and ask why it was done that way? What are you going to say? Ate you going to be an arrogant little shit and say "oh we changed it because we think it's better"...
We already have things that can poison you, venom was added to add a new game mechanic, something we haven't seen beforehand, however have some experience with (poison, and disease). The venom mechanics makes sense too, snakes aren't poisonous, they bite you and inject their venom, thus new mechanic, and the longer you go without getting it treated (antivenom) the more damage it does (increasing the damage you take by 2 until capped at 20).


That is actually also how it works on PkHonor. The venom damage starts at 6 and goes up by 2 every 18 seconds, capped at 20 (exactly the same way as in OSRS). I assume that in OSRS, when left untreated, you inevitably die from the venom effect, as it keeps damaging you for 20, 20, 20 etc.
Firstly, for someone to be envenomed long enough for it to reach 20 damage, that's quite long. Also, you can venom someone again while you're actively engaged in combat with them (which as far as I'm concerned, introduces a really small yet interesting combat mechanic). All we did was make a small change to what happens once that 20 damage cap is reached.
In any case, I can't see why anyone would dislike this minor change to venom in PkHonor - aside from the "weh weh weh it's not 100% like OSRS". If anyone sees a really solid reason to make venom keep on doing 20 damage forever, let them bring it forward and we'll make sure to evaluate it.

In any case, as far as Zulrah is concerned, I am going to make the necessary changes to the calculation of defense & prayer roll timings, so the behaviour does mimic exactly that of OSRS (not just for Zulrah, but for all bosses & PvP). Simply because people are used to it. I do expect some backlash from some big changes, but they'll be for the better since people might at last say "PkH's combat mechanics are close to those of OSRS"


..someday.


Yes people eventually die, as expected. Last time you commented on venom you made it sound as if it wasn't going to act the same as osrs. As for not keeping it at 20 each time, you don't magically get better if you get snake bitten in real life, same with osrs, so why would you take less damage on pkh?
Can you give more information about what you plan on doing once the damage caps at 20 on here, without me having to log on to test is myself?
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