Callisto - Community bossing event

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Lieven
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Lieven » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:06 pm

Thanks James. Please only focus on criticising services, updates and events are my territory. Kind regards
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Treehugger
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Treehugger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:07 pm

Lieven wrote:Thanks James. Please only focus on criticising services, updates and events are my territory. Kind regards
Would not trust!
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Slap a ho
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Slap a ho » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:40 pm

Rapsey wrote:Smh, neither can they. It's not like we have some secret list that determines the order of events. We just pick one... Usually one that hasn't been done in a long time if only to reduce the amount of eeny-meeny-miny-moe'ing we have to do.

What's wrong with proposing that too? It's not like staff is told: you must now figure out rewards for this particular boss. The only goal they have is to come up with a good event. The choice of which boss is just as open as the choice of rewards.

Your hands are not tied. On the contrary, you have full freedom of choice. You could just make a topic saying: I propose we do a giant mole event with these rewards and (if you have an opinion on that) these goals. Believe me, staff would gladly run your event. They have to keep coming up with these over and over and for once someone is actually helping them instead of being "helpful" by shitting on what they have come up with. Your event would almost certainly be the next one up.
Easy to say on your side of the fence. Most players don’t have staff experience, so we’re unaware of what we can and cannot do. It’s likely perceived as events are generated by the staff team, not the players, and the players also likely aren’t aware (until now) they can create their own weekend long events. We’ve known we can create pk tournies and the staff team will help advertise, but not once has anyone from staff ever said "Hey guys, send us your suggestions for next weekends event!". Give us a template of what information you need, sticky it, and people will likely use it. I had no idea we could suggest weekend long events with buffed drop rates.

That lies with communication, also these type of discussions. We’re getting somewhere.
Rapsey wrote:This is a classic case of pkh vets causing the very problems they are protesting against. You say you want more events with better rewards but all you do is discourage anyone who tries to give you what you want. Sometimes I really don't get how you can't see that.
Feedback comes in all shapes and sizes. Gotta have thick skin to receive it and grow from it. Yeah, sometimes it comes across like the person is a complete asshole, but it’s also hard to read text with the authors tone. Don’t take it personal.
Rapsey wrote:OSRS team just does what all the big games have been forced to do by those inevitable obnoxious members in their online communities: stop caring and stop listening to them. Sure they look at poll results and read the feedback from a select few reputable community members. But those people that just post on their ideas to rant and vent? Trust me, they don't even bother reading those posts.
This is incorrect. They get thousands of replies on the subreddit and they do read through them and respond to numerous players who you’ve never heard of. They are very involved with the community, I assure you.
Rapsey wrote:Incidentally that's also the main purpose of community managers. They're basically needed to filter out all the feedback that looks like it belongs in the comments section on YouTube so that the people doing the work behind the scenes don't get demotivated by it.
Agree, which is why I think it’d be good if you guys found someone to help fill that gap because it’s missing currently. The community speaks up every time they’re unsatisfied with something and it turns into these shit posts, discouragement, and lack of inspiration to do these things again. However, there is a ton of good feedback being provided, even when it’s a rant in a shitty tone. The feedback is still valuable and can be used to improve and work towards fine tuning the next event.
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Lykos
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Lykos » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:51 pm

P v m life wrote:won’t be doing this one because of the pkers.. need some more better events
Can we delete this kid ty.

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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Pvm porn » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:56 pm

Lykos wrote:
P v m life wrote:won’t be doing this one because of the pkers.. need some more better events
Can we delete this kid ty.
Bro I friended this guy in-game and he came on once and logged after 15 seconds. Highscores page says the rest
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If you want a good productive conversation then start with the solution.

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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Rapsey » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:26 pm

James wrote:
Rapsey wrote:This is a classic case of pkh vets causing the very problems they are protesting against. You say you want more events with better rewards but all you do is discourage anyone who tries to give you what you want. Sometimes I really don't get how you can't see that.
We're more than thrilled to have events and I am quite satisfied with the quality of them too. The goal of my criticism is to make the events better.
Good. FYI I wasn't talking about you in my comments about people ranting about event rewards. As far as I know you weren't doing that.
Slap a ho wrote:Easy to say on your side of the fence. Most players don’t have staff experience, so we’re unaware of what we can and cannot do.
I'm sure there's some truth to that but not nearly as much as you may have been led to believe. There are no rules. Staff doesn't have any insider information about how to organize these events or what to use as rewards. They don't know any more than you guys: gotta come up with an event of some kind. Gotta make sure it's good and balanced so it doesn't get shredded in the comments section. That's basically it.

All bosses are supported for these PvM events so it's just a matter of picking one and coming up with good rewards. And setting goals, but that's more a formality that we do after checking the data of previous events for that boss.
Slap a ho wrote:Give us a template of what information you need, sticky it, and people will likely use it. I had no idea we could suggest weekend long events with buffed drop rates.
You have the template, it gets posted in the news section every time we do one of these events. ;)

But really all of this is starting to sound like "players need to organize the events" and that's not at all what I meant. I'm open to it, I actually think assigning 1 or 2 players as event coordinators/managers would be better than dumping it onto staff but that's not where I wanted to go with this. My point was just that there is a big difference between destructive criticism (rewards are shit) and constructive criticism (how about do this or that with the rewards next time). One makes events better, the other makes the people who organize events throw in the towel.
Slap a ho wrote:Feedback comes in all shapes and sizes. Gotta have thick skin to receive it and grow from it. Yeah, sometimes it comes across like the person is a complete asshole, but it’s also hard to read text with the authors tone. Don’t take it personal.
On this we will have to disagree. Strongly. Feedback may come in all shapes and sizes but that doesn't mean you have to grow elephant skin and accept all of it.

If your wife cooks you something for dinner that you don't like, you could yell at her and say that what she has made you is dogshit and then be like, well it's feedback, gotta have thick skin to receive it and grow from it. Don't take it personal.

It is personal. You're talking to a human being that hasn't had a lobotomy performed on them. These people don't get paid to organize events for you, they're doing it voluntarily to try to make you happy. So maybe stop telling them they just need to grow thick skin and suck up the abuse they're being subjected to.
Slap a ho wrote:This is incorrect. They get thousands of replies on the subreddit and they do read through them and respond to numerous players who you’ve never heard of. They are very involved with the community, I assure you.
I never said they don't listen or respond to their players at all. I said they don't listen to the obnoxious players in their communities. Go look at those reddit replies and I'm sure you'll notice the pattern soon enough. People who treat them like human beings get listened and replied to. People who just rant and rave get completely ignored by the devs. That's the only way you can deal with it. Just ignore it.

I'm not saying that's a bad strategy. Not at all in fact. I think it's good that the dickheads get ignored, there is definitely some poetic justice to it. But you know, community-driven private server, every individual with a keyboard needs to be listened to. But above all, I hope sooner or later those people realize that all they are doing is pushing people away which is the exact opposite of what they want. They want to be listened to, but they're doing it in such a way that no one wants to listen to them.

That's why I'm still here wasting my time talking about this. I keep naively hoping that we won't have to go that route, that our community is small enough that maybe we can get those people to realize that they can get much better results if they stop undermining their own feedback with their anger and hostility. I know it's never gonna happen completely, some people are too far gone to change and there will always be new ones coming along but every little bit helps.

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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Treehugger » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:38 pm

if anyone wants a tl;dr of the above post feel free to pm me x
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Patel » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:09 pm

James wrote:if anyone wants a tl;dr of the above post feel free to pm me x
It is personal. You're talking to a human being that hasn't had a lobotomy performed on them. These people don't get paid to organize events for you, they're doing it voluntarily to try to make you happy. So maybe stop telling them they just need to grow thick skin and suck up the abuse they're being subjected to.
Basically that though. No one's following some weird set of rules. When it comes to events, staff are literally just like:
Staff A: "Hmm I wonder what people wanna do. Yo, check out this event thread I'm thinking about posting."

Staff B: "Oh yeah I don't think people really need reward _____, and it seems like it's smaller reward than last time?"

Staff A: "Ah yeah well the last one was actually too big, don't want all of them to be like that."

Staff B: "Oh good point. Yeah I think it looks good aside from the item."

Staff A: "Cool, anyone else got any ideas?"
etc...

Naturally if someone's got ideas they're welcome to post. But holding a public referendum for each event would undoubtedly take 5ever since everyone would disagree with something, so at some point it's just like "ok I think we should cut it off and go with what we've got"
कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन । मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ॥
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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Iron adam » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:11 pm

Patel wrote:
James wrote:if anyone wants a tl;dr of the above post feel free to pm me x
It is personal. You're talking to a human being that hasn't had a lobotomy performed on them. These people don't get paid to organize events for you, they're doing it voluntarily to try to make you happy. So maybe stop telling them they just need to grow thick skin and suck up the abuse they're being subjected to.
Basically that though. No one's following some weird set of rules. When it comes to events, staff are literally just like:
Staff A: "Hmm I wonder what people wanna do. Yo, check out this event thread I'm thinking about posting."

Staff B: "Oh yeah I don't think people really need reward _____, and it seems like it's smaller reward than last time?"

Staff A: "Ah yeah well the last one was actually too big, don't want all of them to be like that."

Staff B: "Oh good point. Yeah I think it looks good aside from the item."

Staff A: "Cool, anyone else got any ideas?"
etc...

Naturally if someone's got ideas they're welcome to post. But holding a public referendum for each event would undoubtedly take 5ever since everyone would disagree with something, so at some point it's just like "ok I think we should cut it off and go with what we've got"
More like
Staff A: heres an event, pls give feedback
Staff A 1 month later: Anyone have any feedback? pls?
Staff B: looks good

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Re: Callisto - Community bossing event

Post by Patel » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:13 pm

Adamthalion wrote:
Patel wrote:
James wrote:if anyone wants a tl;dr of the above post feel free to pm me x
It is personal. You're talking to a human being that hasn't had a lobotomy performed on them. These people don't get paid to organize events for you, they're doing it voluntarily to try to make you happy. So maybe stop telling them they just need to grow thick skin and suck up the abuse they're being subjected to.
Basically that though. No one's following some weird set of rules. When it comes to events, staff are literally just like:
Staff A: "Hmm I wonder what people wanna do. Yo, check out this event thread I'm thinking about posting."

Staff B: "Oh yeah I don't think people really need reward _____, and it seems like it's smaller reward than last time?"

Staff A: "Ah yeah well the last one was actually too big, don't want all of them to be like that."

Staff B: "Oh good point. Yeah I think it looks good aside from the item."

Staff A: "Cool, anyone else got any ideas?"
etc...

Naturally if someone's got ideas they're welcome to post. But holding a public referendum for each event would undoubtedly take 5ever since everyone would disagree with something, so at some point it's just like "ok I think we should cut it off and go with what we've got"
More like
Staff A: heres an event, pls give feedback
Staff A 1 month later: Anyone have any feedback? pls?
Staff B: looks good
Also true tbh. Didn't wanna include the 1 month part but eh it's the truth usually.
Though what I posted was almost verbatim a transcript from before this event occurred xD
कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन । मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ॥
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