10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

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Rimweed
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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Rimweed » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:38 pm

I hope this balancing update isn't fully done.
  • Saradomins killcount is by far the hardest one to get, only deaths can ignore this. Though how this boss should be nearly as profitable as something like bandos, whereas you can get the killcount in no time? GWD bosses aren't equal in strength, I don't quite see why they should be as equally profitable. (Recently I did over a 1000 Saradomin kills (took me around a week), got around 10B in loots excluding armadyl crossbow, which I haven't received even once in the 1000 kills. ALL OF THE LOOTS WERE ALCHED, because barely anyone wants to buy a pretty much useless Saradomin Sword or a Saradomin Godsword, unless collecting)
  • Dagannoths dropping the corresponding rings is somewhat good. Now players will most likely fight over rex. Also, not quite sure if this was an inside job or what, though props to the merchers.
    Spoiler: show
    Image
  • Kalphite Queens drops are mostly alchables, as is Chaos Elementals. Lowering the drop rates for KQ isn't a great idea. It was mostly the main source of money for newcomers to get the cash for donator status. Now regulars will struggle even more.
  • Nerfing Honor players even more? I don't quite think that's a very bright idea.
    It'll soon be only used for messing around and not helping it to kill NPCs. I wouldn't quite see myself spending a large amount of money for a plain "mess-around" status, not even going to mention about donating for it.
In general, the balancing should of been done by also looking at the complexity of the boss and the time that is needed to get to it (killcount, achievements, quests) and not only by plain profits that were made farming them.

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Mike » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:25 am

Isaac wrote:Mike here's a Zulrah kill log for 800 Zulrahs.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=66598
Sadly, the information I need is how many kills you could get in 1 hour (or 15 or 20 or 30 minutes, something I can extrapolate to 1 hour) and how many supplies it cost you. The actual loot is of little information to us in this regard :/
Unless you can tell us more about what you actually did with the loot (which items you would alch, which to sell and if any are way underpriced/overpriced in our price list). That's also information we need to keep rebalancing the drops properly.


Rimweed wrote:I hope this balancing update isn't fully done.
  • Saradomins killcount is by far the hardest one to get, only deaths can ignore this. Though how this boss should be nearly as profitable as something like bandos, whereas you can get the killcount in no time? GWD bosses aren't equal in strength, I don't quite see why they should be as equally profitable. (Recently I did over a 1000 Saradomin kills (took me around a week), got around 10B in loots excluding armadyl crossbow, which I haven't received even once in the 1000 kills. ALL OF THE LOOTS WERE ALCHED, because barely anyone wants to buy a pretty much useless Saradomin Sword or a Saradomin Godsword, unless collecting)
Thank you for your input! As I said, we'll certainly keep readjusting the drops where needed based on feedback such as yours.
I did indeed forget to take the actual time for the killcount into account. For Bandos, there's goblins and for Zamorak there's imps. Armadyl and Saradomin don't really have those low level NPC's for quick killcount, so you are correct that those two rooms should have their drops buffed somewhat. I also didn't know that the Saradomin Sword is more often alched than sold so we may want to compensate for that as well.

Rimweed wrote:
  • Dagannoths dropping the corresponding rings is somewhat good. Now players will most likely fight over rex. Also, not quite sure if this was an inside job or what, though props to the merchers.
I have to admit I have no idea what you mean by your "merchers inside job", any chance you can elaborate on that?
Rimweed wrote:
  • Kalphite Queens drops are mostly alchables, as is Chaos Elementals. Lowering the drop rates for KQ isn't a great idea. It was mostly the main source of money for newcomers to get the cash for donator status. Now regulars will struggle even more.
The KQ and chaos ele will certainly receive some more decent loot (coin stacks, stacks of expensive skilling supplies etc.), other than just the stuff that people alch most of the time. If anything, the alched items should become more rare, so the supply is no longer way above the demand and people might actually manage to sell them.
Rimweed wrote:
  • Nerfing Honor players even more? I don't quite think that's a very bright idea.
    It'll soon be only used for messing around and not helping it to kill NPCs. I wouldn't quite see myself spending a large amount of money for a plain "mess-around" status, not even going to mention about donating for it.
They were never meant to be used as something players can use to abuse mechanics. The sad truth is that for many players that is indeed exactly how they use it. I would soon like to propose some changes to the honor rank, to make them a far better (integral) part of the game while still being enjoyable, rather than just "something you get bored with soon, but you can use it to abuse some PVM mechanics", but nothing has been settled yet. First we'll have some internal talks about the honors, then we'll have some discussion with the community how we can keep them the same value (or, if anything, make them worth more) without the abuse and with nice extra's that people don't get bored of so soon. Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.
Rimweed wrote: In general, the balancing should of been done by also looking at the complexity of the boss and the time that is needed to get to it (killcount, achievements, quests) and not only by plain profits that were made farming them.
That is correct, but that's also what we are doing. In my news post, I've listed the bosses according to their profitability (or what we intend them to be) and the explanation why they are ranked like that. Usually, it's either because of high risk or because of quests or achievements that need to be completed.
Other factors certainly come into play that we haven't fully considered yet. For example, the time it takes for the killcount in GWD is something we have not yet properly taken into account. I'm sure there are other examples that the community can bring forward of *why* a certain boss should have its drops buffed (or nerfed). But we're definitely going in the right direction. Mostly, we need more feedback (mostly on "do people actually alch or sell these drops?" and "are the prices of the dropped items more or less correct?") so we can bring the right changes to the game.

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by The underdog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:27 am

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Isaac » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:34 am

Rimweed wrote: [*]Dagannoths dropping the corresponding rings is somewhat good. Now players will most likely fight over rex. Also, not quite sure if this was an inside job or what, though props to the merchers.
Spoiler: show
Image
He means that because only Rex now drops a berserker ring it's 3x harder to produce more, on top of that factor in how many people will just camp Rex now. All in all this means supply has been severed and there's always a demand for berserker rings so now they've risen to 100m each after being at like 30m a pop not long ago. Someone is already dumping 500 brings in G.E in the pic.

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Rimweed » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:03 am

Not quite sure if other people alch Saradomin drops, but I certainly did (9 Saradomin Swords, 2 Saradomin Godswords, 100 Skeletal Helms). That's the loot that I've gotten, at first I tried selling Sara Swords and Godswords, as for Skeletal Helms it's pretty obvious it's only good to be alched. In my opinion, 200M for a Saradomin Sword is quite a bargain, considering they're alching for 180M. However, in 4 days I've sold 0 of them via G.E. for 200M, so why bother waiting, if you can just alch for 180M. Same thing goes for Saradomin Godsword. My personal suggestion would be, to leave Saradomin as it was before the nerf. It was quite decent money wise even if you haven't received an Armadyl Crossbow.

About Dagannoths, if you were to open the spoiler, you would see that there's only one sell offer for berserker rings and it's 100M per ring with ~540 in stock. Whereas there were sell offers yesterday for just around 30M before the change. It wasn't anything nothing more than a joke honestly, as it would be quite weird that someone knew that you were going to change Dagannoths to what it is now and use that information to gain money. Nonetheless, berserker ring prices will rise dramatically and won't be a viable option for PvP, because of how hard it'll be to obtain one now.

The upcoming KQ and Chaos Elemental buffs will be more than welcome as I've said, it's pretty much the new comers choice of money making. However, Chaos Elemental should have a somewhat bigger buff compared to anything else. KQ is safe, so it shouldn't be changed drastically, it was quite balanced as it was IMHO, though adding supplies and cash stacks to the drop table sounds like a reasonably good change. Also, I've always saw Chaos Elemental as a pretty worthless NPC. It's in the wilderness, has a rather high chance to get PKed and besides the diamond and the pet drop has nothing else to offer. That certainly needs an almost complete revamp.

Honor changes, I'm not too worried about them as I don't use it very often (mostly at Nex or Corp), so I'm sure it'll be a good change more or less.

Pretty much the GWD kill count was overlooked and wasn't taken into consideration, which is not a big deal if it'll be changed to the right side. Armadyl and Saradomin have the hardest kill counts, though Armadyl is somewhat easier while using a cannon, Saradomin is the only real hell to get into. Also, Armadyl has a whole Armadyl set to drop, which price is quite decent at the moment, since noone really does Armadyl. Although Saradomin has Armadyl Crossbow which is around 6B, more than all of the Armadyl drops COMBINED, other Saradomin drops are in most cases alched. So in my opinion leave Saradomin as it was. Either that, or increase the drop chance of Saradomin Sword and decrease the alch value of it, furthermore adding the Tear of Guthix would improve Saradomin Sword and then it MIGHT be a viable special attack weapon for PvP. As for Armadyl, slightly increasing Armadyl drops and maybe adding those new cash drops would make a good balance? Honestly, this need more input from the community, because that's only my opinion.

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Azu rite » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:10 am

So you lowered the drop rates for sara gwds bedside it was more profitable, yet outside of nex it has the most annoying/longest kill count to get if you don't have death?
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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by I just pvm » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:56 am

I must admit some of these updates provided are fantastic, it allows new players a better chance of making money along with competing against veteran players.

Like some said before Saradomin & Armadyl killcount takes forever unless your a death, you'll normally spend more time gaining killcount for a task then you'll spend in the room it's self.

The making of dagganoths more of a profitable side is good aswell as it will allow people to make more money, sadly some of the rings would be alched to because they were so common and difficult to sell. I feel in the long run this update will help bring PKhonor to a level of players that are able to find a better sight of making money to start on the game and also give them a chance at actually gaining some reward. For those complaining that a new person is getting what 1/10 of the drops from a npc what's the issue with that? You still have 9/10 of chance of gaining a better reward than that person.

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Ruler » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:11 pm

These are some great changes, good job!

I have to agree about sara boss. The killcount is extremely annoying, a reason why many people have it blocked as a slayer task.

Why does ww now drop yew roots? They are quite useless now we have better potions that are made with magic roots. Would prefer to see them drop magic instead of yew.

To r3v, this new system also makes it so it's very beneficial to team up. Every individual within the team won't outdamage the solo guy in best gear, but with the more you are, the more damage you do as a team so the chance that one of the people in the team, and thus the team, gets increases. Seems like a great system to me, and one that was needed (coming from someone with enchanted cape).

Honors really do need a change because they were already way too weak to really be of any help. Plus they shouldn't be allowed to go deeper than lvl5 woldy because there is no reason for them to do so except scouting. To counter this nerf I suggested removing (or decreasing) the stat reduction.
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=63385

About chaos ele, as someone who did like 2.5k kills quite recent, it really doesn't need a buff for now. Yes, many of its drops are alchables (like all of them) except clues and diamond. But I experienced that the droprate of elites is very high (pretty sure I got a minimum of 1 per hour, sometimes like 3 in an hour). Of course this could be luck but over a range of 2.5k kills I think I can be pretty sure to say that the elite droprate is reason enough to make chaos ele a very good money making method. Thereby you still have a chance to get shadow diamond which is like 6-8b (I received 3 of them I think).

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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Ayeno1 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:44 pm

Only thing I have to say is about the elves. They are really hit and miss. Sometimes you can have good rates but sometimes you can get nothing in an hour+. So I don't think it was needed to decrease the rate at the most. And trust me , I've probably done more hours at elves than other people .
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Re: 10 August updates - PVM changes & bugfixes

Post by Ruler » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:12 pm

The update seems to have broken getting drops when pvming with honors.
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=67684

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